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Post by Mamapalooza on Jun 20, 2019 14:24:36 GMT -5
Half an hour before the doors are open is not unreasonable, the kids can tool around the playground or field. Our schools have a staff member outside monitoring things and can unlock a door in the event of an emergency. It's ridiculous if they require parents to stand outside the door until it opens.
Growing up I either walked or rode a bike to get to school a few minutes early (from Kindergarten on), but when I was bussed we were there well before school started and spent our time playing tetherball and shit. The need for kids to be constantly monitored is not normal or healthy.
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Post by Tpatt100 on Jun 20, 2019 15:11:14 GMT -5
What’s unhealthy about keeping an eye on your own kid before another adult shows up to take over responsibility? A kid doesn’t learn anything standing around for 30 minutes , I am going over spelling words with my son while waiting 10 minutes or we are talking about something he watched on YouTube. I see parents whining all the time at my son’s school because they think of it as daycare and they are complaining about all the snow days this past year.
It’s not “constant monitoring” it’s about liability. People think teachers are daycare providers and will be the first one blamed if something goes wrong.
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Post by Pandora on Jun 20, 2019 15:25:07 GMT -5
I agree with the others about the pool. Report it to the apartment complex, don't make it your responsibility. If there are very small children alone at the pool, I might be inclined to check the laws and report if applicable.
I'm not familiar enough with the school drop off scenario to have a strong opinion on that. Do kids not walk to school anymore?
My pet peeve is other parents taking it upon themselves to "watch" my children when it is neither wanted or needed. When my two oldest were like 12 and 13, they had a boyfriend scout event at the church we go to. It got over 30-60 minutes before we would be there for Mass. I told them that I wanted them to walk over to the park across the street from the church and have out there until we got there. When we got there some random parents "assured" is that they stayed and kept an eye on them for us. It was annoying.
Our last neighborhood in Colorado was full of busybodies and I didn't feel comfortable letting my kids go out and play much because of them. Our new neighborhood is fantastic. Lots of kids and the age limit for the life guarded pool is 10 to go without an adult. My middle three spend most days out and about at the pool and in the neighborhood playing with other kids. The adults see this as normal here, thank God. I do think it's good for kids to have chances to interact with there peers without parents constantly present and watching.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jun 20, 2019 18:27:53 GMT -5
I’m not watching some strangers kid at the pool. I’m reading something trashy or playing on my phone. 🤷♀️
If a kid is drowning I will do CPR on them🤷♀️
If your kid is acting like a jerk at the pool (running, bullying other kids, splashing me) I will absolutely tell them to stop being a jerk. Loudly enough to embarrass them. Then I’ll probably tell them to get off my lawn 😂
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Post by deeniereenie on Jun 20, 2019 22:32:34 GMT -5
10 year olds at a lifeguarded pool is different than 10 year olds at a pool that does not have a lifeguard. I have dropped my children off at the base pool before, after they were 10 and met the age requirement to be there alone. I would not have left them to play at a pool with only their peers at that age.
Our playground is fenced, and the gates are locked, so there is no hanging out on the playground before school starts. While the responsibility for an accident on the playground or outside the front of the school SHOULD be on the parents who leave them there without an adult present, we all know that would not be the case if a child was injured on school property before school hours. Students, especially the youngest ones, should not be hanging around outside the school before staff is on duty.
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Post by Pandora on Jun 21, 2019 10:01:17 GMT -5
Completely agree. I wasn't trying to relate that to the original question, as I said I agree with the others that that situation is unacceptable.
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Post by Wise Old Goat on Jun 21, 2019 10:32:30 GMT -5
Half an hour before the doors are open is not unreasonable, the kids can tool around the playground or field. Our schools have a staff member outside monitoring things and can unlock a door in the event of an emergency. It's ridiculous if they require parents to stand outside the door until it opens. Growing up I either walked or rode a bike to get to school a few minutes early (from Kindergarten on), but when I was bussed we were there well before school started and spent our time playing tetherball and shit. The need for kids to be constantly monitored is not normal or healthy. I think a lot of problems aren't because it's half an hour before the doors open - it's because it's half an hour before the staff monitoring begins (which is usually about half an hour before the door opens).
I used to walk ds to school when he was younger - and I hung around until he went in (I'm talking pre-grade 4), but that was my social times with the other moms who did drop off. I wasn't usually watching him - I was just talking to my peeps. If the weather was nice we sometimes stood there talking until well after all the kids went inside  |
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Post by Eli on Jun 21, 2019 12:13:56 GMT -5
My advice? Don't take on the responsibility of the other kids. If there are rules violations, report them. If she wants to go to a pool and not worry about watching kids, then follow JT's advice. There are places that pay for lifeguards. If there is an HOA or Board, then go to a meeting and discuss making plans for having a lifeguard during the summer. This. |
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Post by Mamapalooza on Jun 21, 2019 14:54:32 GMT -5
What’s unhealthy about keeping an eye on your own kid before another adult shows up to take over responsibility? A kid doesn’t learn anything standing around for 30 minutes , I am going over spelling words with my son while waiting 10 minutes or we are talking about something he watched on YouTube. I see parents whining all the time at my son’s school because they think of it as daycare and they are complaining about all the snow days this past year. It’s not “constant monitoring” it’s about liability. People think teachers are daycare providers and will be the first one blamed if something goes wrong. Kids learn plenty of valuable social skills when they're unsupervised for 30 minutes. Play itself is the very mechanism by which kids learn. That's its primary purpose in addition to benefits like physical activity. Kids who don't learn to resolve conflict, take turns, overcome adversity, face disappointment, and negotiate their own social rules (all done through play) are the kids who grow up and seek out safe spaces and trigger warnings as adults because no one let them figure out on their own how to function properly in the world. When a child is handed off from one adult to another, after a certain point in normal childhood development, then yes that is constant monitoring. It's unnecessary and even harmful. There's a school in Quebec that has brought back roughhousing and physical contact as a pilot project, because some people have wisely recognized that supervision is only required to a point. This is also what Jonathan Haidt talks about in The Coddling of the American Mind, that a generation of kids have now grown up where some show maladaptive, even violent, coping skills as adults because they were not allowed enough independence to develop healthy skills. There are only a fraction of kids who walk or bike to school compared to generations ago, for exactly the reason you state, that no one is there to keep an eye on them. It's no longer the norm to have, what is in my opinion, a reasonable amount of independence. To some, it is is not only unnecessary but dangerous. |
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Post by justthinking on Jun 21, 2019 15:00:06 GMT -5
To me there us a huge difference between a dozen neighborhood kids playing unsupervised and 400 4-10yos playing unsupervised. YMMV, but I am totally fine with the former and not okay with the latter.
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Post by mimi on Jun 21, 2019 15:27:23 GMT -5
I wouldn’t take on the responsibility of supervising unaccompanied children at a pool. I wouldn’t allow my kids/grandkids to play at an unsupervised pool (no lifeguard) until they were at least into their teens.
I’ve noticed how much the comfort level has changed over the years about unsupervised kids. When our kids were little, they walked to school (3 blocks) alone or with other kids. (Even in kindergarten). With my grandkids the expectation is that parents will drop off their kids no sooner than 15 minutes before the start of class. Our oldest grandkids are 13/12 & we stopped walking over to drop off/pick them up at the beginning of this school year. We still walk over to get the younger one. I’m fine with giving them some independence but I fear being reported for negligence if we don’t.
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Post by Tpatt100 on Jun 21, 2019 16:42:36 GMT -5
When I wait with my son at school it’s because the school asked us to. It’s not a big deal to me. Parents are more concerned now because we know a lot more than our parents did. Our parents were lucky because they were ignorant as to what could or is happening around them. Both my grade school and high school had sexual abuse issues when I was a kid that I only learned about decades later. So I did ask about adult screening methods at my son’s school at a parent meeting and some anti helicopter parent rolled their eyes at me.
I remember my mom walked me to school every day as a kid because she liked doing it. I learned from her about parenting so I do the same with my son. But now the anti helicopter group makes adults feel like they are turning their kids into helpless stupid adults anytime they express even the slightest concern over their kids well being.
This generation is turning out just fine, we just have access to more information so people are acting like we are raising a bunch of couch potatoes which ironically my generation was supposed to turn into which we kinda did with the rising rates of obesity.
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Post by mimi on Jun 21, 2019 17:09:40 GMT -5
I should probably clarify a little bit. The school asks that children not be dropped off until 15 minutes before school starts so that’s what we do. My husband is retired so he walks the grandkids to school every day & picks the younger one up. (The older ones have some after school activities they are involved in so they often walk home by themselves. We live on the same street as the school & I can stand on the sidewalk in front of our house & see when the kids step onto the sidewalk from the school. Although I would be fine letting the 6 year old walk to or from school with his brothers, (ages 13 & 12) I know we would be judged for it so we don’t. An adult always picks him up.
When the older boys play with their friends at the schoolyard or go riding bikes, they take a cell phone with them in case they have an emergency or we need to contact them. (It sits in a drawer when they aren’t using it & I do randomly check it.)
I don’t let the little ones (ages 6 & 4) play outside without someone outside with them, not even in our fenced in yard. Some parents in our city were reported to social services for letting their young children play in a fenced in back yard alone for a few minutes while the Mom dashed into the house to get something. I think that’s a little excessive but that’s the world we live in now.
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Post by justthinking on Jun 21, 2019 18:12:47 GMT -5
Someone called cps over kids playing in a fenced back yard? I hope cps told them to get a life.
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Post by mimi on Jun 21, 2019 18:28:34 GMT -5
Yes, because “someone could have taken them”. They had to investigate but it was dropped.
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Post by justthinking on Jun 21, 2019 20:10:14 GMT -5
Yes, because “someone could have taken them”. They had to investigate but it was dropped. That is totally eyeroll worthy. |
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Post by Mabel on Jun 22, 2019 12:44:56 GMT -5
What’s unhealthy about keeping an eye on your own kid before another adult shows up to take over responsibility? A kid doesn’t learn anything standing around for 30 minutes , I am going over spelling words with my son while waiting 10 minutes or we are talking about something he watched on YouTube. I see parents whining all the time at my son’s school because they think of it as daycare and they are complaining about all the snow days this past year. It’s not “constant monitoring” it’s about liability. People think teachers are daycare providers and will be the first one blamed if something goes wrong. Kids learn plenty of valuable social skills when they're unsupervised for 30 minutes. Play itself is the very mechanism by which kids learn. That's its primary purpose in addition to benefits like physical activity. Kids who don't learn to resolve conflict, take turns, overcome adversity, face disappointment, and negotiate their own social rules (all done through play) are the kids who grow up and seek out safe spaces and trigger warnings as adults because no one let them figure out on their own how to function properly in the world. When a child is handed off from one adult to another, after a certain point in normal childhood development, then yes that is constant monitoring. It's unnecessary and even harmful. There's a school in Quebec that has brought back roughhousing and physical contact as a pilot project, because some people have wisely recognized that supervision is only required to a point. This is also what Jonathan Haidt talks about in The Coddling of the American Mind, that a generation of kids have now grown up where some show maladaptive, even violent, coping skills as adults because they were not allowed enough independence to develop healthy skills. There are only a fraction of kids who walk or bike to school compared to generations ago, for exactly the reason you state, that no one is there to keep an eye on them. It's no longer the norm to have, what is in my opinion, a reasonable amount of independence. To some, it is is not only unnecessary but dangerous. Can I just say, I hate when people talk about safe spaces and trigger warnings like this? Somehow these terms have turned into something they aren’t, and it bugs the hell out of me. Here’s a great link talking about why safe spaces were created, and why they are important, and that they are more than just for “coddled millennials” like I feel people seem to think. www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/7/5/11949258/safe-spaces-explained |
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Post by Mamapalooza on Jun 25, 2019 14:51:57 GMT -5
Kids learn plenty of valuable social skills when they're unsupervised for 30 minutes. Play itself is the very mechanism by which kids learn. That's its primary purpose in addition to benefits like physical activity. Kids who don't learn to resolve conflict, take turns, overcome adversity, face disappointment, and negotiate their own social rules (all done through play) are the kids who grow up and seek out safe spaces and trigger warnings as adults because no one let them figure out on their own how to function properly in the world. When a child is handed off from one adult to another, after a certain point in normal childhood development, then yes that is constant monitoring. It's unnecessary and even harmful. There's a school in Quebec that has brought back roughhousing and physical contact as a pilot project, because some people have wisely recognized that supervision is only required to a point. This is also what Jonathan Haidt talks about in The Coddling of the American Mind, that a generation of kids have now grown up where some show maladaptive, even violent, coping skills as adults because they were not allowed enough independence to develop healthy skills. There are only a fraction of kids who walk or bike to school compared to generations ago, for exactly the reason you state, that no one is there to keep an eye on them. It's no longer the norm to have, what is in my opinion, a reasonable amount of independence. To some, it is is not only unnecessary but dangerous. Can I just say, I hate when people talk about safe spaces and trigger warnings like this? Somehow these terms have turned into something they aren’t, and it bugs the hell out of me. Here’s a great link talking about why safe spaces were created, and why they are important, and that they are more than just for “coddled millennials” like I feel people seem to think. www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/7/5/11949258/safe-spaces-explainedThe problem with safe spaces and trigger warnings though, is they are the antithesis of how to properly deal with trauma. They reinforce to kids that what they're dealing with even IS trauma -- it's become ridiculous how many people self-diagnosis with PTSD, OCD, etc. when they're not clinically afflicted. But let's say they do have PTSD, the way to deal with that is cognitive behavior therapy, not avoidance. Words that one disagrees with are not "unsafe",they are not "violence". They're words. Indulging that kind of thinking just reinforces maladaptive coping skills. Tell a kid they're anxious and they're encounter every new situation being anxious and defensive. Anxiety and depression and suicide have all risen in young people people they've been growing up being told that everything is scary is dangerous. It's ridiculous, it's robbing kids of the opportunities for learning and growth. Besides which, as someone pointed out to me recently, it's unrealistic to think we can even anticipate what everyone's triggers will be. This woman was explaining she had OCD and an eating disorder, so her triggers were numbers. She'd obsessively start calculating weights, calories, time, portions, etc. When she got to college it was trigger city as you can imagine, but back then there were no safe spaces and trigger warnings. She got therapy and learned to deal with the issue through CBT, and successfully made it through college. The focus is almost always on sex, race and gender, but she makes a good point that people can have any number of triggers - regardless, avoidance isn't the clinically recognized method to deal them, indulging the belief they are traumatized only reinforces it. Anyway, Haidt does map it out pretty well and pinpoints it to kids born after 1995 for a number of reasons, but they're not Millennials they are the iGen. |
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Post by Tpatt100 on Jun 25, 2019 16:59:08 GMT -5
The people who turned the term “safe spaces” into something else entirely are the ones who like to rile people up because they know they are trying to purposely offend people.
At our Weight Watchers meetings they call it a safe space because they want people to be open and honest and not worry about somebody yelling “quit eating so much you fat ass” which happens on social media. I am not sure which CBT helps with being called a fat ass though.
A lot of stuff in schools now is because when I was a kid we were taught to “toughen up” or “get thicker skin” but I remember feeling so relived when we got a snow day so I could avoid all the bullshit from the bullies.
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Post by deeniereenie on Jun 25, 2019 20:10:07 GMT -5
I was told the same type of things. It sucked. I remember being absolutely terrified of a kid in my 3rd or 4th grade class. He made my life a living hell I was told it was because he "liked me". My mom and dad went to the school to complain after I came home with a goose egg on my head from getting hit with an encyclopedia by him, and that was after he had stabbed my hand with a pair of scissors "accidentally" (he reached across the table to get to me and jabbed at me. It broke the skin. Nothing happened to him either time. Our dads were in the military, and my dad worked with his, and my dad tried to talk to his to no avail. Not long after the head incident, his dad was transferred, and I was thankfully not bullied anymore. I do take it seriously when my students complain about others hurting them.
BUT, sometimes parents will call to complain about bullying, when I just don't see it. Or it is blown completely out of proportion. Example- I am teaching summer school right now. We go to technology twice a week. We have close to 40 kindergarten kids, so they have to share an ipad when we go in. The first day, we were in groups of 3. In one of the groups, they were having a little trouble sharing. One of the girls in that group told her grandfather that the boy "took her ipad" and he came up the next morning to complain that she was bullied, and that we better do something about that boy. He wasn't going to stand for her being bullied! I let him know that we were working in a group, they had to take turns, and that she never said anything to us about it, that we had been working with them teaching them to take turns, etc. He was still mad. Oh well!
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