emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Dec 12, 2019 15:30:32 GMT -5
I just skimmed because I am walking around in the grocery store.  From what I saw, this does not show that any country is operating on the same scale as Russia. It says 70 countries have at least one political party that uses propaganda and disinformation domestically, and a handful use disinformation to influence foreign opinions but the information is limited as to the extent. Also China has recently shifted from domestic issues to attempting more foreign influence. If it says something other than that, I missed it. Again, Russia has been doing this for decades. They are the experts. During the Cold War, the US had dedicated people to combat Russian disinformation, but once the Cold War ended, the US said “guess we don’t have to worry about that anymore!” and focused elsewhere. Meanwhile Russia and especially Putin were still going. Everyone else is way behind. |
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joywt
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Post by joywt on Dec 12, 2019 16:00:18 GMT -5
According to the study, the countries who have a “high cyber troop capacity” of disinformation are:
China
Egypt
Iran
Israel
Myanmar
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Syria
United Arab Emirates
United States
Venezuela
Vietnam
“ High cyber troop capacity involves large numbers of staff, and large budgetary expenditure on psychological operations or information warfare. There might also be significant funds spent on research and development, as well as evidence of a multitude of techniques being used. These teams do not only operate during elections but involve full-time staff dedicated to shaping the information space. High-capacity cyber troop teams focus on foreign and domestic operations.”
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joywt
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Post by joywt on Dec 12, 2019 16:07:40 GMT -5
Not happy to see the US on that list of mostly authoritarian countries but also not in the least bit surprised.
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emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Dec 12, 2019 16:17:02 GMT -5
But that doesn’t indicate anything about the scale, just that those countries are in a group because they have dedicated disinformation teams and don’t limit their efforts to domestic elections. The ranges in budgets and team size are enormous, and they don’t even have data in their chart for Russia. I don’t see how anyone can point to that as proof that those countries are operating disinformation campaigns on the same scale as Russia.
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joywt
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Post by joywt on Dec 12, 2019 17:31:55 GMT -5
I haven’t seen you provide any evidence of Russia’s disinformation campaign being significantly larger than every other country on that list. Sure, a google search will find more news articles on Russian’s disinformation campaign than any other, but that doesn’t mean anything. I honestly don’t know why you think Russia has a monopoly on using disinformation and propaganda. They did not invent it, it was around long long long before the Cold War was even a thing. It has certainly gotten much easier to disseminate with the internet, but I haven’t seen any proof that the Russian government’s use of it is on the scale that you seem to feel it is.
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emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Dec 12, 2019 18:00:11 GMT -5
I never said they had a monopoly or that they invented propaganda, so I don’t know where you got that. I am saying that after looking into this specific issue for the last year, I haven’t seen any evidence that there are other countries who are comparable, unless they are operating entirely in secret and no one has picked up on it yet. I will try to find something to send you when I go back to work tomorrow and have my laptop.
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joywt
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Post by joywt on Dec 12, 2019 18:17:26 GMT -5
I just want to clearly state that I believe that Russia has a large disinformation campaign, that is not what I am disputing. What I am having a problem with is why I should be any more concerned about that than I should be with all the other disinformation campaigns out there. Disinformation is a problem, especially in the age of the internet - I get that. I just don’t understand why I should be more upset about disinformation coming from Russia than coming from anywhere else.
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emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Dec 12, 2019 18:29:01 GMT -5
It’s all a problem for sure, including domestic disinformation (see: current UK election). The issue with Russia specifically is that they are they ones capable of going after the US, the UK, and EU countries. Putin hates NATO and is trying to disrupt democratic countries for his own benefit. Russia has the expertise, the manpower, the resources, and the motive to do it effectively (unlike somewhere like Myanmar). The reason to be more concerned about Russia is because they have been the most effective with their strategy and they have been playing a long game since Soviet times. If China follows suit, that will be very concerning as well because of the resources they could put behind it. I have to go to bed now. I can’t wait up all night for election results. |
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Post by Tpatt100 on Dec 12, 2019 19:08:54 GMT -5
China is going to own us hard when it comes to artificial intelligence. Monitoring all their internet traffic is legal so they have tons of data to work with. As far as political propaganda goes, as soon as email became common people were creating their own propaganda and forwarding it along. For the US the 2016 election showed an increase in third party votes plus Trump lost the popular election. The voters kinda said “screw it” and stayed home or voted third party. In my state third party candidates took 5 percent of the votes www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-election-day/third-party-candidates-having-outsize-impact-election-n680921 |
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joywt
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Post by joywt on Dec 12, 2019 19:24:03 GMT -5
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joywt
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Post by joywt on Dec 12, 2019 19:34:04 GMT -5
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joywt
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Post by joywt on Dec 12, 2019 22:02:43 GMT -5
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From what I saw, this does not show that any country is operating on the same scale as Russia. It says 70 countries have at least one political party that uses propaganda and disinformation domestically, and a handful use disinformation to influence foreign opinions but the information is limited as to the extent. Also China has recently shifted from domestic issues to attempting more foreign influence. If it says something other than that, I missed it. 
