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Post by Sprockey on Mar 2, 2020 14:13:33 GMT -5
Also- if you feel something akin to "trapped by anger" then I think the focus should be on moving past that in a way that makes you whole again. And forgiving someone might not be the remedy. You have to learn to either live with that anger or figure out how to move forward (independently of the person who hurt you). You don't need to tie your freedom from that pain to the person responsible. Not everyone is worthy of being forgiven but you are worthy of not being tied to them. I would separate how I was feeling from the person who made me feel that way. They are not the meaningful part here.
Hope that makes sense (I am just rambling my thoughts here)
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Post by lizziebeth on Mar 2, 2020 14:38:58 GMT -5
Some of the newer definitions of forgiveness are a little far afield for me. It’s granting pardon, absolution. I can let go of my own anger or resentment without choosing to forgive. For me actual forgiveness generally requires some effort or demonstrated change of heart on the part of the person who wants it.
The newer concepts strike me as geared toward the victim finding a way to continue to live with bullshit or how not to become separated from religious ideals of earning God’s favor.
It occurs to me that I sound cynical, and if it helps other people feel better, have at it. Lol
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Post by Mamapalooza on Mar 2, 2020 15:53:27 GMT -5
I’m not sure who said this (Oprah?) but I read a definition once of Forgiveness. Forgiveness is letting go of the hope that the past could have been different. That's pretty much where I'm at with everything in my past, but I don't call it forgiveness. I call it life, I guess. And moving on. If it's not worth working through anymore (or ever was) then it doesn't really need a name for me, it's just processed and set aside. I hate living in the past, it doesn't do me any favors at. all. I have been able to lead a pretty fulfilling life without going through a forgiveness process of those who have wronged or hurt me. It feels like a meaningless exercise. I just keep looking forward and not backwards. This bench.
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Post by puddleglum on Mar 3, 2020 7:00:44 GMT -5
The value of forgiveness depends on who is doing the forgiving. We all need God's forgiveness because we have all sinned. This forgiveness can't be earned. We receive it as a gift if we repent of our sins and place our faith in Jesus Christ. If we have been forgiven we must forgive others because God has commanded it. Except not everyone believes in your version of god and not everyone believes in Jesus, so your answer really only applies to you and is basically useless, and also insensitive to the original poster as her religious beliefs may not align perfectly to yours. Maybe you should go ask your Jesus for forgiveness about being insensitive to others religions. What I said was true whether anyone believes it or not. Jesus said he is the only way to God and as one of his followers I am commanded to tell others about him.
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Post by Sprockey on Mar 3, 2020 11:59:18 GMT -5
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Mar 3, 2020 12:12:23 GMT -5
Except not everyone believes in your version of god and not everyone believes in Jesus, so your answer really only applies to you and is basically useless, and also insensitive to the original poster as her religious beliefs may not align perfectly to yours. Maybe you should go ask your Jesus for forgiveness about being insensitive to others religions. What I said was true whether anyone believes it or not. Jesus said he is the only way to God and as one of his followers I am commanded to tell others about him. Others don’t want to hear your bullshit. And because you continuously decide to preach here to those who have clearly shown zero interest I’m going to be making a large financial contribution to the ACLU so that they can continue to protect young impressionable students from your Biblical Bullshit. I encourage other members here to donate to the ACLU on behalf of Puddlegum. Puddlegum your continued preaching is directly financially supporting keeping religion out of schools! Yay!
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Post by villanelle on Mar 3, 2020 18:15:17 GMT -5
Except not everyone believes in your version of god and not everyone believes in Jesus, so your answer really only applies to you and is basically useless, and also insensitive to the original poster as her religious beliefs may not align perfectly to yours. Maybe you should go ask your Jesus for forgiveness about being insensitive to others religions. What I said was true whether anyone believes it or not. Jesus said he is the only way to God and as one of his followers I am commanded to tell others about him. Curious. Do you find it appropriate or offensive if I say there is no god. If I say Jesus was just some guy with a cult following? If I say that the bible is a book of myths and fairy tales? Jesus said he is the only God. James Jones said drinking the kool-aid would lead to ascension. It doesn't make either of them right. Out of deference to people who believe differently than me, I generally say, "I believe there is no god" rather than "there is no god". Yet you don't offer the same consideration. So I assume that means you don't need that consideration given to you. So I can say that your god is a silly sky fairy and your bible a book of badly written fiction, no?
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Mar 3, 2020 20:36:02 GMT -5
What I said was true whether anyone believes it or not. Jesus said he is the only way to God and as one of his followers I am commanded to tell others about him. Curious. Do you find it appropriate or offensive if I say there is no god. If I say Jesus was just some guy with a cult following? If I say that the bible is a book of myths and fairy tales? Jesus said he is the only God. James Jones said drinking the kool-aid would lead to ascension. It doesn't make either of them right. Out of deference to people who believe differently than me, I generally say, "I believe there is no god" rather than "there is no god". Yet you don't offer the same consideration. So I assume that means you don't need that consideration given to you. So I can say that your god is a silly sky fairy and your bible a book of badly written fiction, no? Puddlegum doesn’t care about anyone’s feelings but his own. He’s made that plainly obvious. He deserves no more consideration regarding his religious beliefs than he shows to others. Which is none at all.
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Post by marianparoo on Mar 16, 2020 5:12:12 GMT -5
Forgiveness is a two way street. It needn’t be given if it hasn’t been earned, There is a book called “How Can I Forgive You? The Courage to Forgive, the Freedom Not To” by Janis Spring, that addresses the process of forgiveness, and the difference between forgiveness and acceptance. I am not a fan of placing the burden of forgiveness on the person who was originally harmed. Best comment about forgiveness I have ever seen anywhere. Thank-you, Alice.
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Post by marianparoo on Mar 16, 2020 5:16:41 GMT -5
One of the limited number of things I like in my own religion, is that one cannot get forgiveness from God until they have asked it from the person they have wronged. There is a difference between sins against God and sins against fellow humans, and never the two shall meet. You can be Jewish born again (hozer b'tsuvah or ba'alei tsuvah) until the cows come home, but it isn't going to clean your blotted copy book.
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