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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jan 21, 2021 11:59:12 GMT -5
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jan 21, 2021 12:10:23 GMT -5
My own beliefs (and I’ve been called a TERF and threatened for them before) are that trans women in women’s sports are just another way that individuals born with a penis assert privilege over individuals born with vaginas.
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Post by Sprockey on Jan 21, 2021 16:24:47 GMT -5
I want all of this: "LGBTQ people and advocates are gearing up to hold Biden to his promises in the first 100 days of his presidency. Some, like Box, want to see federal ID legislation, which the American Civil Liberties Union is pushing for Biden to institute via an executive order. Others want him to immediately undo the ban on transgender people serving in the military and a variety of other Trump administration policies that rolled back protections for LGBTQ people. Advocates would also like to see Biden pass federal discrimination protections, among other legislation. The Equality Act In May 2019, the Democrat-controlled House passed the Equality Act, a sweeping bill that would grant LGBTQ people federal protections from discrimination in employment, housing, credit, education, public space, public funding and jury service. The legislation, however, was never given a vote in the Republican-led Senate." www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/what-lgbtq-advocates-want-biden-s-first-100-days-n1254751Equality and protections for all. None of it affects me personally and I really couldn't care less what's between someone's legs when they use a bathroom or a shower/locker room As long as they don't threaten me in any way. The only hesitation I have is when it comes to playing sports. I do feel like there could be an unfair advantage there. |
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jan 21, 2021 16:36:19 GMT -5
I want all of this: "LGBTQ people and advocates are gearing up to hold Biden to his promises in the first 100 days of his presidency. Some, like Box, want to see federal ID legislation, which the American Civil Liberties Union is pushing for Biden to institute via an executive order. Others want him to immediately undo the ban on transgender people serving in the military and a variety of other Trump administration policies that rolled back protections for LGBTQ people. Advocates would also like to see Biden pass federal discrimination protections, among other legislation. The Equality Act In May 2019, the Democrat-controlled House passed the Equality Act, a sweeping bill that would grant LGBTQ people federal protections from discrimination in employment, housing, credit, education, public space, public funding and jury service. The legislation, however, was never given a vote in the Republican-led Senate." www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/what-lgbtq-advocates-want-biden-s-first-100-days-n1254751Equality and protections for all. None of it affects me personally and I really couldn't care less what's between someone's legs when they use a bathroom or a shower/locker room As long as they don't threaten me in any way. The only hesitation I have is when it comes to playing sports. I do feel like there could be an unfair advantage there. That’s the same thing I feel. I really feel like people born with penises are also born with other things that give them a competitive athletic advantage. |
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Post by shaena on Jan 22, 2021 11:10:37 GMT -5
I agree with Sprock. I admittedly come at this as someone from an area where grown men are WAY too invested in high school football as their grown up identity,so I kind of roll my eye, especially coming from a state that is embroiled in this controversy, but I tend to think that for some sports, it may be time to change how we think about the scoring and that sort of thing? Especially as womens sports notoriously don't sell as many tickets as men's do.
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Post by jen on Jan 22, 2021 13:57:24 GMT -5
This actually happened to me in at a competition. One of the athletes presented as very very masculine. Not in the sense where I think she had been taking steroids, but rather her bone structure and noticeable lump in her throat. The strength of that woman was undeniable and she was awesome to watch, but I admit there’s a big part of me that was glad she was not in my weight class because I was pretty sure I’d have to confront my opposing feelings about trans rights and women’s sports.
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Post by momof3b1g on Jan 22, 2021 14:34:57 GMT -5
I want all of this: "LGBTQ people and advocates are gearing up to hold Biden to his promises in the first 100 days of his presidency. Some, like Box, want to see federal ID legislation, which the American Civil Liberties Union is pushing for Biden to institute via an executive order. Others want him to immediately undo the ban on transgender people serving in the military and a variety of other Trump administration policies that rolled back protections for LGBTQ people. Advocates would also like to see Biden pass federal discrimination protections, among other legislation. The Equality Act In May 2019, the Democrat-controlled House passed the Equality Act, a sweeping bill that would grant LGBTQ people federal protections from discrimination in employment, housing, credit, education, public space, public funding and jury service. The legislation, however, was never given a vote in the Republican-led Senate." www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/what-lgbtq-advocates-want-biden-s-first-100-days-n1254751Equality and protections for all. None of it affects me personally and I really couldn't care less what's between someone's legs when they use a bathroom or a shower/locker room As long as they don't threaten me in any way. The only hesitation I have is when it comes to playing sports. I do feel like there could be an unfair advantage there. All of this! I do admit that playing/competing in sports makes me feel conflicted. There seems to be room for growth into more co-ed opportunities or like Shaena said, maybe a more equal field with scoring/judging. |
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jan 22, 2021 15:04:17 GMT -5
This actually happened to me in at a competition. One of the athletes presented as very very masculine. Not in the sense where I think she had been taking steroids, but rather her bone structure and noticeable lump in her throat. The strength of that woman was undeniable and she was awesome to watch, but I admit there’s a big part of me that was glad she was not in my weight class because I was pretty sure I’d have to confront my opposing feelings about trans rights and women’s sports. This I think is the real crux of the issue for me. I can imagine being a female athlete, working my whole life to swim upstream and become successful in my sport, then be forced to compete against a trans woman with obvious biological advantages, it just seems incredibly unfair to the cis female who may or may not feel comfortable expressing the concern, would probably be “canceled” for her legitimate concern, and is expected to “suck it up” like cis women have been expected to do for everything, always, when it comes to accommodating folks born with a penis. |
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Post by alicechalmers on Jan 22, 2021 16:27:04 GMT -5
I am all for trans rights when they are not at the expense of women’s rights. It is not conflicting to say that the right to swing your fist may not involve the territory near my nose, and it’s only because women are socialized to always.make.room that we are expected to just nod and acquiesce.
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Post by nansel on Jan 22, 2021 17:41:30 GMT -5
I am all for trans rights when they are not at the expense of women’s rights. It is not conflicting to say that the right to swing your fist may not involve the territory near my nose, and it’s only because women are socialized to always.make.room that we are expected to just nod and acquiesce. I agree. It's unfortunate when people can't have everything they want, but that's not my problem. As a girl and woman I've "made room" way too many times, and paid the price socially for fighting too many times.
I used to have a lesbian coworker who was amazing to talk to. She is about 10 years older than me, and has lived a very interesting life of careers and whatnot. We used to talk about all sorts of issues over lunch. Sometimes other coworkers would walk into the lunch room, raise their eyebrows and ask us what the heck we were on about.  . She told me that a lot of "her tribe" (her words) are not thrilled with the rise in trans rights, and didn't like that the T was added to LGB because they don't think it's the same issue at all - being gay vs. being trans. And lots of people in the gay community don't like that trans people have muscled into their groups. I hadn't considered that before she explained it to me.
If all that makes me a TERF, so be it.
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Post by alicechalmers on Jan 22, 2021 19:02:08 GMT -5
Same. I believe in civil rights for all. I use people’s names and pronouns of choice. I will correct other health care professionals if they use an old pronoun. But I also think Title 9 is there for a reason, and that people don’t have to justify their attraction. Lesbians in particular are not obligated to date women who are not biologically female. I think major concerns about the current rates of teen girls transitioning to boys. I can embrace the TERF name if it means not bowing down to insanity and misogyny.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jan 22, 2021 21:01:06 GMT -5
Same. I believe in civil rights for all. I use people’s names and pronouns of choice. I will correct other health care professionals if they use an old pronoun. But I also think Title 9 is there for a reason, and that people don’t have to justify their attraction. Lesbians in particular are not obligated to date women who are not biologically female. I think major concerns about the current rates of teen girls transitioning to boys. I can embrace the TERF name if it means not bowing down to insanity and misogyny. I’ve been told it is transphobic of me to not be attracted to a trans man. How is that phobic? Is it homophobic if I’m not attracted to a cis woman? I don’t care who anyone wants to be or be with, but don’t I get a choice too? |
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Post by stellarfeller on Jan 22, 2021 21:11:45 GMT -5
Who told you that?
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jan 22, 2021 21:17:58 GMT -5
My very “woke” friend Sally 🤷♀️ |
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Post by alicechalmers on Jan 22, 2021 21:42:25 GMT -5
I have heard these arguments as well.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jan 22, 2021 22:24:39 GMT -5
The Advocate says it’s transphobic to not want to continue to date someone or develop a relationship if you find out they are trans after you meet them. www.google.com/amp/s/www.advocate.com/commentary/2019/12/14/refusing-date-trans-people-transphobic%3famp“Iimagine a date that’s going well. There’s mutual physical attraction and definite chemistry. Then you find out they’re transgender via conversation (yes, everyone still has their clothes on), and end the date right then and there. But for the fact that the other person was transgender, this would have been a really good date, and you probably would have seen them again. This is discrimination against the transgender person for being transgender.” |
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Post by stellarfeller on Jan 22, 2021 22:28:19 GMT -5
Well, just because they say that doesn’t make it true.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jan 22, 2021 22:31:08 GMT -5
It seems this is what most folks think now 🤷♀️ medium.com/@qse/when-you-say-i-would-never-date-a-trans-person-its-transphobic-here-s-why-aa6fdcf59aca“Here’s the deal: it is not transphobic to decide that you don’t want to date a specific trans person based on your preferences in personality, hobbies, social beliefs, body type, etc. Consent is really cool, and believe me, no one wants to date you or fuck you, if you don’t want to date or fuck them. Trans people are not trying to force you to date us. It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person ever, and the choice to draw such a line is rooted in ignorance, fear, and disgust of trans people.” If you wouldn’t consider dating a trans person then you are: transphobic. You have to be attracted to trans women if you are attracted to cis women, for example. You have to be attracted to trans men if you are attracted to cis men.. If you are not - that is transphobia. You cannot have a preference and if you do: cancelled. 🤷♀️ |
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Post by alicechalmers on Jan 22, 2021 22:42:30 GMT -5
I wouldn’t say most people think this, but it is definitely a trend within progressive culture. What I find problematic within progressive culture (and I am progressive by any reasonable definition) is the all or nothing mindset that discourages any questioning of the current narrative.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Jan 22, 2021 23:15:46 GMT -5
I wouldn’t say most people think this, but it is definitely a trend within progressive culture. What I find problematic within progressive culture (and I am progressive by any reasonable definition) is the all or nothing mindset that discourages any questioning of the current narrative. True, I’d correct to say this is what many people think, not most.. |
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. She told me that a lot of "her tribe" (her words) are not thrilled with the rise in trans rights, and didn't like that the T was added to LGB because they don't think it's the same issue at all - being gay vs. being trans. And lots of people in the gay community don't like that trans people have muscled into their groups. I hadn't considered that before she explained it to me. 