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Post by alicechalmers on Nov 15, 2017 20:23:26 GMT -5
I adore historical fiction. It's my absolute favorite genre - historical mystery, historical romance, historical fiction based on nonfiction, I pretty much like it all. While I used to follow some blogs that discussed various genres including my fave, I've pretty much given up on using literary blogs for reading recommendations. Why? The expectation that historical characters act in modern ways.
Examples: criticism that the heroine gave up her career to get married criticism that the hero was unhappy in a previous marriage, partially because his wife didn't like sex criticism that the characters didn't take enough of a hard stance against racism or another -ism criticism that the heroine is fairly submissive (not BDSM type stuff, but that the hero was the obvious leader of the relationship)
What.The.Fuck. I realize that these can be things that bother readers, and that's okay! Read fiction set in modern times. But a historical character acting in a modern manner is really crappy, poorly researched writing.
What say you?
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Post by villanelle on Nov 16, 2017 6:08:57 GMT -5
I struggle with this in both my reading and writing.
To me, there's a difference between historical romance (e.g. Outlander) and romances that take place in different periods of history (e.g. most regency romances). Agents and publishers generally treat them differently as well. In the former, there is an expectation that things be historically correct, including the sensibilities and morals of the time. The latter is allowed to have some anachronisms. Certainly Lord Stuffington, can't whip out his cell phone, but he may unbutton his shirt to open it (rather than pulling it over his head, as would be historically accurate). And Lady Stuffington might have modern views on equality (gender, race) and may perceive the world through a rather modern lens.
To me, this is okay. I don't read romances for the history lesson. In many ways they are akin to fantasy fiction to me. I can completely understand how someone would see it differently though.
But I suspect a truly accurate work wouldn't be nearly as romantic to most readers. When the h inhales the scent of the H and describes the sour smell of man, unwashed for days, having spent those days in layers of wool, even in the summer, that doesn't set quite the same mood as the scent of leather, cedar, and something purely, unmistakably Stuffington. When he smiles rougishly at our fair h, if he's missing several teeth, it won't have the same affect as the symmetrical white grin.
I think everyone has a line of what disbelief they are willing to suspend and what they aren't. Almost anyone would reject the cell phone. Some would reject the button down shirt, or the strong, fierce woman who sees herself at equal or better to any many. Few would reject more modern hygiene.
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Post by realcranky on Nov 16, 2017 6:57:14 GMT -5
I can't read historical fiction very often because of the very non-historical elements. Anne Boleyn did not take all that many baths (so I do, in fact, reject the addition of modern standards of hygiene!)
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Post by shaena on Nov 16, 2017 8:25:08 GMT -5
I am most familiar with historical romance- bodice rippers. Where the rogueish hero usually just about rapes our heroine in the first few chapters and then they love hate throughout the book to the whirlwind romantic conclusion.
They are both usually not considered pretty for their time period but would make suspiciously great looking Victoria Secret models of today, and usually the heroine is also an educated upstart who loves to read,and the hero is always fascinated by women who are historically inaccurate!
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Post by Yogagirl on Nov 16, 2017 8:37:26 GMT -5
I will gladly forgo "woke" characters for historical accuracy. One of the things I like about Outlander is the juxtaposition of old vs. new ideas. Corporal punishment for wives as well as children, rape victims being considered "ruined" were all historically accurate ideas of the time. Whitewashing everything and pretending those things didn't exist just makes it fiction not historical.
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Post by alicechalmers on Nov 16, 2017 10:56:28 GMT -5
I will gladly forgo "woke" characters for historical accuracy. One of the things I like about Outlander is the juxtaposition of old vs. new ideas. Corporal punishment for wives as well as children, rape victims being considered "ruined" were all historically accurate ideas of the time. Whitewashing everything and pretending those things didn't exist just makes it fiction not historical. Same. I often do read historical romance and and mystery for the history. Mary Balogh is one such author. There's a huge variety within the romance genre. Only the first book of the Outlander series could be considered a romance, so on the whole it's taken as just "fiction." Sometimes historical fiction, sometimes literary fiction, it does seem to make cataloguing difficult. lol The critiques of Outlander are one of my peeves. I don't expect everyone to like it, but to insist that Jamie is a rapist is just fucking stupid.
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Post by Wise Old Goat on Nov 16, 2017 17:06:58 GMT -5
I fall victim to this. While I like historical books - I like my characters to be relateable. I know that's my problem but when I'm reading for entertainment I stop if I'm not being entertained. I don't mind if women do the things women did like give up careers and stuff like that but I can't believe that even historic women were "for" physical and sexual violence. Obviously it was commonplace - but I don't find it entertaining to read about it and having the women be okay with it. I would never write blog posts and rant about how the women aren't woke enough - I just stop reading though . For example - I enjoyed Outlander when I first read several years ago but I couldn't get into the 2nd one. Last year I decided to try again and I started with Outlander because it had been over a decade. I couldn't even finish it this time. I know that Claire's reaction to getting smacked around for whatever shit she did wrong was historically accurate but I didn't like reading about how quickly she got over it and moved on with everything. But that's my problem.
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Steffy
Full Member
Let's take a trip to the stars
Posts: 112
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Post by Steffy on Nov 16, 2017 19:19:05 GMT -5
I will gladly forgo "woke" characters for historical accuracy. One of the things I like about Outlander is the juxtaposition of old vs. new ideas. Corporal punishment for wives as well as children, rape victims being considered "ruined" were all historically accurate ideas of the time. Whitewashing everything and pretending those things didn't exist just makes it fiction not historical. Same. I often do read historical romance and and mystery for the history. Mary Balogh is one such author. There's a huge variety within the romance genre. Only the first book of the Outlander series could be considered a romance, so on the whole it's taken as just "fiction." Sometimes historical fiction, sometimes literary fiction, it does seem to make cataloguing difficult. lol The critiques of Outlander are one of my peeves. I don't expect everyone to like it, but to insist that Jamie is a rapist is just fucking stupid. Yep. I got into it with a lady that insisted that Frank was abusive, but Jamie wasn't because he was from the 18th century. Umm...
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Post by coachgrrl on Nov 16, 2017 20:11:18 GMT -5
I'm currently reading "Jubilee" which was written by Margaret Wlaker
I am loving it.
Oh but the heroine, not modern at all. In fact she was a slave.
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Post by coachgrrl on Nov 17, 2017 22:24:05 GMT -5
I'm currently reading "Jubilee" which was written by Margaret Wlaker I am loving it. Oh but the heroine, not modern at all. In fact she was a slave. ETA I'm almost done with this book. It has been probably the best book I've ever read about slavery/civil war and reconstruction. Beautifully written, great story based on the authors family and well researched. It was published 50 years ago. I'm shocked no one made a movie or miniseries. Highly recommend Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by marianparoo on Nov 23, 2017 10:56:34 GMT -5
Very interesting thread, but haven't read many of these on years
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Post by nansel on Nov 23, 2017 22:15:26 GMT -5
I love historical fiction, if it's as historical as possible. Anachronistic things and behaviours take me out of the story. I don't understand people like the one's AC mentioned in the OP, who want the characters to act modern.
I have really enjoyed Outlander, which is a bit different, but still interesting. I like that Claire is forced to deal with how different the 1700s were for women and has to try to do her best to fit in, while trying to slip in some of her modern ideas.
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