|
Post by Sprockey on Oct 4, 2017 7:50:00 GMT -5
It’s become a sort of twisted American ritual: A lone white male shooter opens fire on a crowd of people. Americans cry out for someone to do something and are met with shoulder shrugs, mumblings about “the price of freedom” and assurances that the people elected to protect them are sending their “thoughts and prayers.” Politicians have managed to make a once benign, if not comforting, phrase sound almost profane. It’s not that there is anything wrong with praying for those who are suffering. In fact, if you are a religious believer, it’s an imperative. I’m not in the camp that dismisses prayer as superstitious mumbo-jumbo embraced only by the unenlightened. I’m a person who prays and who has been prayed for and knows its power. But it’s not enough. Nor is it what we hire politicians to do. We elect them to fix problems, enact policies and keep us safe. Instead, we have elected officials — many of them self-described conservative Christians who also happen to take money from the National Rifle Association — using cries for “thoughts and prayers” as some sort of inoculation against responsibility or action when it comes to gun violence. In his address to the nation on Monday, instead of offering specific action, President Trump and his White House team avoided any discussion of policy, as though it were only a spiritual matter. “We pray for the entire nation to find unity and peace, and we pray for the day when evil is banished, and the innocent are safe from hatred and from fear.” But Christians especially believe that our faith leads us to action. “If we profess to follow Jesus, all of our talk must be indivisibly connected to all of our deeds. If there are no deeds, then the talk is meaningless,” the Rev. Eugene F. Rivers III told me. “The contrived, empty platitudes [from these politicians] are a public relations gimmick to avoid confronting this ideologically captive religion which bears no fruit.” www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/10/03/why-thoughts-and-prayers-is-starting-to-sound-so-profane/?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.eb1fb96abb49
|
|
|
Post by Sprockey on Oct 4, 2017 7:50:52 GMT -5
Have "thoughts and prayers " worn out their welcome?
|
|
|
Post by Peanut on Oct 4, 2017 8:02:25 GMT -5
Have "thoughts and prayers " worn out their welcome? Context matters. My religious relatives offer up prayer in support, and I can respect that even though I do not pray in the same Judeo-Christian way as they do. However, as a generic salvo, I tend to view it as the equivalent of someone saying "God bless you!" or "Bless you!" after a sneeze--but on a a larger scale. It is all too often used as an acknowledgment of what has happened/occurred/affected someone and not as an actual statement of fact. The statement itself has more evolved than worn out it's welcome.
|
|
|
Post by Tpatt100 on Oct 4, 2017 8:24:40 GMT -5
If I support abortion rights it doesn’t mean I will support you in getting one.
If I support gun ownership it doesn’t mean I support murder.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 8:35:42 GMT -5
It's hypocritical. For one thing, very few of them actually "pray" about anything, EVER. Secondly, their "thoughts" are about 2018 being an election year and of not pissing off the NRA which, as the front organization for the arms dealers of America, wields tremendous political power.
|
|
|
Post by maurinsky on Oct 4, 2017 8:42:58 GMT -5
It's become the equivalent of a customer service rep asking "how are you?" They don't care and it doesn't mean anything.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 8:56:19 GMT -5
If I support gun ownership it doesn’t mean I support murder. If you support gun ownership without any controls over who can buy them and how they are tracked, you are supporting murder. Chicago is full of untracked guns, the guns that are being used in drive-by murders. These guns are purchased "legally" because, "legally", you can drive to Indiana with a suitcase full of cash, buy all the weapons you want, and drive back to Chicago without there being any paper trail whatsoever. It's legalized gun running protected and even promoted by the NRA whose mindless mantra is, "If you let them make even one rule or regulation, it will end up with your guns being confiscated." People buy into this "panic propaganda" despite the fact that there could never be even the beginnings of such an occurrence because it would be an immediate and brutal political suicide for anyone even broaching the suggestion. Unless ........... YOU make it happen. Yep, that's right. By refusing to do anything whatsoever to help curb the ever increasing frequency and magnitude of the gun violence in this society, you could very possibly make the majority of voting Americans so fed up that THEY make the decision to do something DRASTIC to stop it. It won't be the politicians, it will be, "We, the People", who finally end this insanity. You need to make a decision. Are you willing to make some sensible compromises that will keep your freedom of gun ownership but yet curb the gun violence in this country, or do you want it to get so damn bad that the voting citizens of this nation do it for you? You make the choice.
|
|
|
Post by Tpatt100 on Oct 4, 2017 9:31:19 GMT -5
When gun control supporters can’t prove a law that is being proposed will make a difference “for” the crime they are talking about then you will forever get gun rights activists saying “liberals want to take our guns”.
For example:
“Pass these laws because of X mass murderer”
“How will it prevent that?”
“ we don’t know but its a start “
|
|
|
Post by TapToTalk on Oct 4, 2017 10:29:49 GMT -5
The liberals aren't happy that the NRA hasn't been banned from existence and that there are guns in the US. Until then, their common response to "thoughts and prayers" is that it is "not enough".
They had their chance when Obama was in charge. They'll have their chance again. They'll add more and more restrictions that look like those in California, Chicago and other Dem strongholds. Of course, the Dem Presidential candidate (who has never actually seen a gun up close) will go on a hunting trip or buy a duck hunting licence to pretend they don't hate guns.
This theater has been repeating itself for decades.
|
|
mare
Full Member
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by mare on Oct 4, 2017 11:15:23 GMT -5
The liberals aren't happy that the NRA hasn't been banned from existence and that there are guns in the US. Until then, their common response to "thoughts and prayers" is that it is "not enough". They had their chance when Obama was in charge. They'll have their chance again. They'll add more and more restrictions that look like those in California, Chicago and other Dem strongholds. Of course, the Dem Presidential candidate (who has never actually seen a gun up close) will go on a hunting trip or buy a duck hunting licence to pretend they don't hate guns. This theater has been repeating itself for decades. That's a pretty broad brush you are painting with. There are liberals outside of California, you know. I know lots of liberals who don't want to ban all guns. In fact, I'd say most of them don't want that. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
|
|
|
Post by Lor on Oct 4, 2017 12:25:39 GMT -5
When gun control supporters can’t prove a law that is being proposed will make a difference “for” the crime they are talking about then you will forever get gun rights activists saying “liberals want to take our guns”. For example: “Pass these laws because of X mass murderer” “How will it prevent that?” “ we don’t know but its a start “ So what is the answer? A start is better than status quo. Thoughts and prayers without action are empty words at this point.
|
|
|
Post by alicechalmers on Oct 4, 2017 14:32:34 GMT -5
I'll just walk around dittoing tpatt. Wanting to ban guns has no more to do with protecting people than the drug war does.
|
|
|
Post by TapToTalk on Oct 4, 2017 14:53:04 GMT -5
So what is the answer? A start is better than status quo. Thoughts and prayers without action are empty words at this point. "Thoughts and prayers without action are empty words" are also empty words. The only real action us folks can take are donating to any charities that aid the victims. That's not the action that the "let's do anything" crowd wants to hear. They'd like NRA shutdown. I posted an article in the thread about the incident by someone with real statistics about meaningful action that can be taken.
|
|
|
Post by Lor on Oct 4, 2017 15:57:47 GMT -5
So what is the answer? A start is better than status quo. Thoughts and prayers without action are empty words at this point. "Thoughts and prayers without action are empty words" are also empty words. The only real action us folks can take are donating to any charities that aid the victims. That's not the action that the "let's do anything" crowd wants to hear. They'd like NRA shutdown. I posted an article in the thread about the incident by someone with real statistics about meaningful action that can be taken. Helping the victims is closing the barn door after the horse has left though, I'm not part of the "let's do anything" crowd but I'm certainly part of the "Change has to start somewhere" crowd. I think the solution needs to include restrictions (not banning) of certain things and a lot of investment into truly understanding and dealing with mental health issues.
|
|
|
Post by alicechalmers on Oct 4, 2017 16:04:03 GMT -5
Bit of a side tangent: you never really hear about the importance of mental health issues when discussing inner city violence, in which far more people are slaughtered than in shootings in which white people are the primary victims.
|
|
|
Post by andrea on Oct 4, 2017 16:39:35 GMT -5
If this guy was a psychopath, no amount of mental health services would have helped. We can't fix psychopathy and we can't incarcerate them in the absence of a clear danger to the self or others.
What could we reasonably do? Administer psychopathy tests to everybody to weed out who's got potential to be a mass killer?
Until this guy decided to act, it appears he was a functioning member of society.
There are killers who were under the care of competent mental health professionals at the time they decided to act, who were on medications. The only thing that could have prevented them from acting would have been incarceration and that's not something we currently do with the ease we once did.
Personally, I find nonspecific vague calls for mental health services after instances such as these to be as empty as "thoughts and prayers."
People crack. It happens. And we can't stop it.
|
|
|
Post by alicechalmers on Oct 4, 2017 16:49:29 GMT -5
A freaking men. I mean really, do we want to return to institutionalization for people who don't fit the norm? Not that that stopped murders at any rate, but that's essentially what all these calls for mental health care amount to. Yeah, we need better psych care, but not because it's going to prevent people from killing one another. All these pleas are nothing more than an excuse to strive for a nanny state.
|
|
|
Post by Lor on Oct 4, 2017 17:57:05 GMT -5
So the answer is to carry on as usual and wait for the next one?
|
|
|
Post by alicechalmers on Oct 4, 2017 18:02:55 GMT -5
Again with the false dichotomies and ridiculous narratives. "If you don't want your rights taken away for absolutely no fucking reason, then clearly you are okay with children being slaughtered." Um, no.
|
|
|
Post by nansel on Oct 4, 2017 18:05:39 GMT -5
Lor didn’t say that. She asked what can be done then? No one seems to have anything real to suggest, so carrying on seems to be the only option.
I’ve been wanting to ask, but haven’t been able to figure out a way to ask what can be done that doesn’t put people on the defensive.
|
|