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Post by villanelle on Mar 30, 2021 18:44:29 GMT -5
When do you think a workplace can or should require someone to return to in-office work? (Inspired by someone who works around DH.)
The military and DoD has allowed many people to be 100% WFH, even when their jobs don't necessarily work perfectly, creating more work for or shifting unpleasant work to others. People with serious underlying conditions, and even some of those who live with someone with significant health issues, have been allowed to WFH.
Is "vaccinated" a decent criteria? (Two weeks post last dose.) What about those who can't get the vax due to medical conditions? What if they can but just refuse? What if they get vaxed but still don't feel comfortable or confident in the vaccine? Or if they are eligible but simply don't pursue it? Is there some other criteria that you think should be used?
For jobs not designed to be WFH, what do you think is reasonable? Do workplaces need to let this go on indefinitely? Leave it up to the person to decide?
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Post by RobinAnn on Mar 30, 2021 19:04:49 GMT -5
As someone who has worked in-person during COVID times (because you can't be a health screener at home) and who is married to a low-paid hospital worker, I'd say, once a person has been offered the vaccine (plus the appropriate time to get the vax), they should be in the office (if that is how the job is best performed). Refusal to get the vax (with no legitimate reason) means they should be terminated. How many medical conditions really contradict vaccination? (The docs I've talked to don't even count anaphylaxis as a hard stop to vaccination.)
I like the "work from home" model, theoretically, but only if it works well for all and doesn't put an undue hardship on others.
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Post by mimi on Mar 30, 2021 19:33:28 GMT -5
It isn’t possible for me to work from home. Even in my new position, it isn’t possible for me to work from home.
If the job can be done from home (all parts of it), I don’t have a problem with it staying as work from home. If the job isn’t compatible or some parts aren’t compatible, they should go back to the office once fully vaccinated.
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Post by shaena on Mar 30, 2021 20:27:29 GMT -5
As soon as the vaccine is viable? I had to work out of the home for just about the entire year, to be able to hold on to my job. Some of the roles I took on were to help people who had children at home, or were older. It's not really a sustainable model now that I can start returning to my actual job duties hopefully soon. I think giving people time to get vaccinated is reasonable.
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emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Mar 31, 2021 4:07:48 GMT -5
Since the pandemic started, I have done a mix of home (7 months) and at work (5 months), based on whether or not schools were in-person or remote. A couple of teachers have stayed home and taught online since last March, but that won’t be an option going forward. Generally I would say companies should reopen once everyone is eligible to be vaccinated (and companies can decide if that is a condition of employment).
I do wonder how all of this will change (and has changed already) the employment landscape. And other things as well, like how this will affect cities and where people live. There are several countries now that have some version of a “digital nomad visa”, so people can remain in their current job, and work remotely in another country without needing to deal with the usual tax and employment rules for residency. I mean, the reason I’m taking editorial courses right now is because librarianship is generally an in-person profession, and I wanted a WFH backup plan to be prepared for the future.
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mare
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Post by mare on Mar 31, 2021 6:03:15 GMT -5
I don't think any employer should "have to" offer work from home. If they are following safety protocols (requiring masking, distancing, hand sanitization, etc) then that adheres to all reasonable precautions.
It's nice if they give people the option to WFH if it's possible.
I have done a combo of WFH and in person this whole year. I also traveled extensively and stayed in hotels.
I don't think most people who get Covid are getting it from work situations where protocols are being followed. I think it's from social gatherings.
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Post by maurinsky on Mar 31, 2021 7:08:22 GMT -5
Doug's workplace is probably going to eliminate office space - his job is a combination of visiting work sites, reviewing blueprints and plans, and reports, none of which he has to go into an office for.
My boss wants to make it an option for folks, to either work from home or come in or a hybrid - the Finance/Accounting Department apparently had an increase in productivity with everyone working from home. My department serves the rest of the Town, so we would, in this scenario, have core hours between 9-3 which would require someone in the office, but otherwise could choose to work from home. I hate working from home and I am definitely less productive at home, so I would choose to be in the office most of the time.
I think some workplaces will reimagine how they can function based on how things worked during the pandemic.
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Post by villanelle on Mar 31, 2021 11:53:25 GMT -5
As someone who has worked in-person during COVID times (because you can't be a health screener at home) and who is married to a low-paid hospital worker, I'd say, once a person has been offered the vaccine (plus the appropriate time to get the vax), they should be in the office (if that is how the job is best performed). Refusal to get the vax (with no legitimate reason) means they should be terminated. How many medical conditions really contradict vaccination? (The docs I've talked to don't even count anaphylaxis as a hard stop to vaccination.) I like the "work from home" model, theoretically, but only if it works well for all and doesn't put an undue hardship on others. I have (maybe?) a history of anaphylaxis. I know "maybe" is weird, but I'm not quite sure. I carry an epi pen for bee stings after having a terrible reaction in which my arm from wrist to well above my elbow was red, hugely swollen, and hot. Treated with steroids. I never had difficulty breathing or anything like that, though had I been stung on the face or neck I can assume I might have. Anyway, I gave this history (coincidentally it was during a tele-medicine visit to get a prescription for a new epi pen) and the doc said there was zero reason not to get the shot. The person administering the shot at the pharmacy agreed and said I didn't even need to do the 30 min vs 15 minute post-shot wait. I think people initially heard that Europe wasn't sure about anyone who carried an epi pen and have no assumed it is a no-go. I have a friend with a weird medical history. She just gets All The Things. She had a history of allergic reaction (as I understand it, to a previous vaccine). Even she was able to get the first shot, though she had to convince her Dr. she understood the risk. She did have a reaction and ended up in the hospital and now can't get the second one, but even she was able to give it a try. ~~ You said that anyone refusing should be terminate. Is that just if they refuse to return to in-person, or are you saying they should be terminated regardless? ~~ I think that once offered the vaccine (and having time to get it and have it reach full efficacy), people should be required to return to work if that's what the employer deems best for their role. I think refusal or fear or whatever, are not excuses to not do the job one's employer wants them to do. I am on the fence about requiring someone to be vaccinated or flat our firing them, even if they are willing to come back. Once the vaccines are no longer on emergency approval, however, I will have no such hesitations. I'd love to see "fully vaxxed", defined as having all the major vaccinations, up to date, that we do in the US, as a condition of employment pretty much anywhere (but of course those vaccines need to be available for free). (Excepting, of course, those who a true medical issue, recognized by the mainstream medical community as being an issue for vaccination.) You can deny science all you want, but you don't get to risk others doing it. Ive said it before, but I'm ready to make pariahs out of those people and ban them from as many places as possible, including pretty much any public property. If I could, I'd emblazon them with a Scarlet U for "unvaxcinated" so when they are in public, people know to avoid them. |
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Post by RobinAnn on Mar 31, 2021 13:29:50 GMT -5
~~ You said that anyone refusing should be terminate. Is that just if they refuse to return to in-person, or are you saying they should be terminated regardless? ~~ I think that once offered the vaccine (and having time to get it and have it reach full efficacy), people should be required to return to work if that's what the employer deems best for their role. I think refusal or fear or whatever, are not excuses to not do the job one's employer wants them to do. I am on the fence about requiring someone to be vaccinated or flat our firing them, even if they are willing to come back. Once the vaccines are no longer on emergency approval, however, I will have no such hesitations. I'd love to see "fully vaxxed", defined as having all the major vaccinations, up to date, that we do in the US, as a condition of employment pretty much anywhere (but of course those vaccines need to be available for free). (Excepting, of course, those who a true medical issue, recognized by the mainstream medical community as being an issue for vaccination.) You can deny science all you want, but you don't get to risk others doing it. Ive said it before, but I'm ready to make pariahs out of those people and ban them from as many places as possible, including pretty much any public property. If I could, I'd emblazon them with a Scarlet U for "unvaxcinated" so when they are in public, people know to avoid them. Once "herd immunity" is reached, I guess I really don't care if someone has been vax'd or not. But if the job requires "in person" status, then I guess if they don't come back to the office, they can't do their job. As for requiring all vaccinations, I agree. Most standard vaccinations are covered at no cost under the ACA (item 14 on this website www.healthcare.gov/preventive-care-adults/). I think we are mostly on the same page. |
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Post by Sprockey on Mar 31, 2021 17:38:07 GMT -5
I'm grateful I can work from home.
My Company has seen that we are just as productive at home as we are in a cubicle.
They are looking to ditch real estate which will save them a shit ton of money.
They already have a policy that started in January that says people must work from home at least 2 days a week.
I have no desire to return. All of my peers are in France so there is no point.
I guess it depends on the company and the job.
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Post by justthinking on Mar 31, 2021 17:42:49 GMT -5
I'm grateful I can work from home. My Company has seen that we are just as productive at home as we are in a cubicle. They are looking to ditch real estate which will save them a shit ton of money. They already have a policy that started in January that says people must work from home at least 2 days a week. I have no desire to return. All of my peers are in France so there is no point. I guess it depends on the company and the job. Post-covid they should just send you to France once or twice per year. That would be fun! |
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Post by Sprockey on Apr 1, 2021 3:52:54 GMT -5
my boss just said in Monday's staff meeting that he's hoping I can go at the end of the year!
I don't love to travel though 😕
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emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Apr 1, 2021 4:02:46 GMT -5
I don't love to travel though 😕  |
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Post by justthinking on Apr 1, 2021 8:09:31 GMT -5
my boss just said in Monday's staff meeting that he's hoping I can go at the end of the year! I don't love to travel though 😕 Perhaps you can convince him to send me in your place!😎 |
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Post by nansel on Apr 1, 2021 12:10:39 GMT -5
I don't think any employer should "have to" offer work from home. If they are following safety protocols (requiring masking, distancing, hand sanitization, etc) then that adheres to all reasonable precautions. It's nice if they give people the option to WFH if it's possible. I have done a combo of WFH and in person this whole year. I also traveled extensively and stayed in hotels. I don't think most people who get Covid are getting it from work situations where protocols are being followed. I think it's from social gatherings. I agree with all of this.
My job is only a tiny percent WFH possible. Obviously my workplace wouldn't disclose anyone else's health conditions, but AFAIK so far no one has had COVID. A few of us have ended up having to quarantine due to close contact with a sick person from outside of work, but we haven't had a mass quarantine because of close contact at work. The nature of my workplace is that we all move around and share spaces. We do our best to do the 6' thing, but it isn't always possible, plus the usual safety protocols (which we did before COVID anyway).
I do need everyone else to get vaccinated, as I'm a "non-responder". I will get it done as soon as my turn comes, but I can't count on being immune.
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Post by Yogagirl on Apr 14, 2021 10:48:05 GMT -5
I was remote for years before COVID so no changes for me. My org is planning on opening the office in September but is offering very flexible options from stay at home, come in a few days to coming in every day.
DH and I had dinner out on Saturday and overheard this loud blowhard saying his company was going to reopen with the expectation that everyone would be back in the office full time. If he got pushback from people well then they would have to be willing to forgo raises and promotions if they want to work from home.
What an ass!
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Post by fannybananny on Apr 15, 2021 9:16:03 GMT -5
I don't know the answer to that. I do find it interesting that many workplaces were able to shift to WFH very quickly. Why is that interesting? Because it will knock down their previous protestations that they just couldn't possibly do a WFH scenario, an ableist position so many held when faced with disabled applicants or current staff that needed accommodations such as WFH. Now there's mass precedence to show it can be done, & that workplaces did it quickly. It will, or SHOULD, help disabled people needing accommodation. I don't ever want to hear that they can't do a WFH scenario for the disabled, ever again.
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Post by maurinsky on Apr 15, 2021 14:37:17 GMT -5
I had a meeting today with municipal/county purchasing departments from a bunch of different states, and of the 8 people on the call, 5 of them will not be going back to an office.
Doug's company is going to significantly reduce their office space, and he'll be working from home.
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