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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 12, 2020 18:31:40 GMT -5
You can absolutely spread the virus in small interactions. It happens all the time. It’s not as likely and the spread isn’t as big, but it’s there. And that’s what I mean—it’s impossible for the majority of people to bring their risk to zero. That leaves a pretty broad spectrum, and where does the judgment start? These aren’t always simple equations.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 18:35:20 GMT -5
I think most of us know that people who are being careful can still be infected.
I also think we can distinguish between those people and the ones being reckless.
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 12, 2020 18:56:10 GMT -5
Sure, but in practice there is a lot of judgment out there. One person’s cautious is another person’s reckless. I have a customer who prefers to stay outside, ten feet away, both of us wearing masks. I can accommodate, no big deal, but what does she view as reckless? (She is actually super nice—it’s just an example.).
The person working shoulder to shoulder with coworkers at the turkey processing plant is going to have a very different viewpoint than me, or you.
And then there is the risk vs benefit issue. My step cousin’s daughter got married two weeks ago. It wasn’t a huge wedding but people attended. So far as I know, no one got sick. Reckless? Maybe. But three days ago he had a massive heart attack while out in the field. His farmhand started CPR, but by the time help and the AED arrived his brain had gone too long without oxygen. He was declared brain dead yesterday evening and organs donated today. That recklessness meant he got to walk his daughter down the aisle.
It’s never a simple equation.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 19:30:49 GMT -5
yes, I'm very judgey. I'm not feeling any remorse or guilt over that. lol
I have my own barometer for distinguishing between reckless or not. Just because it worked out ok doesn't make it less reckless or risky.
I can run across a highway of speeding cars and get across safely. That doesn't mean it wasn't risky.
If people want to go to weddings and cram themselves into bars or super-spreader events and risk their own health then fine. My problem is they will continue to move around and spread it to others in the Community. Look at what we just saw at the White House.
If you want to go to a wedding or other event, then isolate yourself for 2 weeks after. There are ways to mitigate the risk to others (masks, distancing, isolation ) and people aren't doing that.
I'm not losing any sleep over Chris Christie or Trump getting Covid 🤷♀️
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 19:33:21 GMT -5
Also, let's not forget that people lost their shit after a month and started to refuse wearing masks and protested any kind of shutdown. That's exactly why we are still here 6 months later.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 12, 2020 19:37:39 GMT -5
Also, let's not forget that people lost their shit after a month and started to refuse wearing masks and protested any kind of shutdown. That's exactly why we are still here 6 months later. Colorado has mandated masks for months. I haven’t seen anyone in my area going even to the store without one. Our numbers are still up 🤷♀️ Viruses gonna virus. I think the vast majority of people are being pretty responsible. A Covid diagnosis doesn’t mean irresponsibility. Supporting your local businesses isn’t wishing death on your friends and neighbors. Doing normal human things as safely as possible doesn’t make you a bad person, and choosing to socially isolate completely for months upon months on end (something I find very odd and not in any way normal human behavior) doesn’t make someone morally superior. I’ve seen too many people I thought I knew in the last 2 weeks literally wishing death on those who have different political views than their own. Fuck humans. All terrible. All of them.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 19:50:51 GMT -5
No, not all humans are terrible. Good lord 😂
Not having sympathy for people is not akin to actively wishing death.
Though I will say if I have lost several loved ones, like some families have- and knowing what an epic failure our leaders have been with their lying, misinformation, and gaslighting, I can't say I wouldn't wish death on them as well. 🤷♀️
And again, no one is talking about people who are acting responsibly and getting sick anyways.
Our cases in town have been low and people are wearing masks here, too. But our numbers spiked due to College kids having frat parties. That's the recklessness most of us are talking about.
Viruses are gonna virus less if people would follow some simple guidelines.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 12, 2020 19:55:57 GMT -5
No, not all humans are terrible. Good lord 😂 Not having sympathy for people is not akin to actively wishing death. Though I will say if I have lost several loved ones, like some families have- and knowing what an epic failure our leaders have been with their lying, misinformation, and gaslighting, I can't say I wouldn't wish death on them as well. 🤷♀️ And again, no one is talking about people who are acting responsibly and getting sick anyways. Our cases in town have been low and people are wearing masks here, too. But our numbers spiked due to College kids having frat parties. That's the recklessness most of us are talking about. Viruses are gonna virus less if people would follow some simple guidelines. Have college kids traditionally been really good at following rules? No, because that age Of human doesn’t do that... they generally never have and never will. Expecting them to is, frankly, not living in reality. As is believing that humans can stay locked i their homes alone for months on end. Yeah maybe a few can. Maybe the high risk humans should. But not in general.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 19:56:39 GMT -5
going to work, to the grocery store, etc. is not reckless .
Going to large parties, cookouts, weddings , or political rallies with zero masks or distancing is.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 19:59:37 GMT -5
it's a pandemic. I expect everyone to follow rules that will keep themselves and the community safe. I'm not excusing them because they are too selfish not to do that.
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Post by villanelle on Oct 12, 2020 20:00:22 GMT -5
So GoF, are you going to acknowledge that your accusation about me dismissing data simply because it doesn't agree with my narrative was completely off base?
Also, I find it unbelievably fascinating that Colorado apparently has a near 100% mask compliance rate, apparently. Congratulations. I see people without masks all the time here. Like, every single day, walking by outside my window. (I live on a busy street, a few blocks from a major and popular Main St. type shopping and dining area. Lots of foot traffic, and not just people from the area out walking dogs.) When I went for my flu shot this weekend, there were people without masks, and several with them only covering their mouth, not their nose. That as in about 10 minutes I was inside the store. And we are a fairly educated, fairly liberal community so I'd wager we are on the more mask-compliant side of the equation than less.
As for recklessness, I supposed it's like porn--I know it when I see it. If the people at that wedding weren't wearing masks--all of them, all the time (unless actively eating, and then at socially distanced tables with only one family/home per table, then yes, I'd call that reckless, for sure. I wouldn't go out of my way to say it, and certainly wouldn't hurl those words at someone if they or their loved one were sick, but yes, I'd consider it reckless. There's a lot of gray area, but for me, that's well outside gray. If they were masked, if it was a small event (about 20 ppl or fewer), if there was social distancing of the ceremony chairs and any dining seating? That's it's probably not a choice I'd have made, but I don't think I'd *quite* call it reckless.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 20:03:04 GMT -5
no one is being forced to being locked in their houses for months on end.
People are being asked to avoid large gatherings, wear masks, wash hands and stay 6 feet apart. For the safety of everyone. It's not a big ask. 🤷♀️
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 12, 2020 20:04:35 GMT -5
So GoF, are you going to acknowledge that your accusation about me dismissing data simply because it doesn't agree with my narrative was completely off base? Also, I find it unbelievably fascinating that Colorado apparently has a near 100% mask compliance rate, apparently. Congratulations. I see people without masks all the time here. Like, every single day, walking by outside my window. (I live on a busy street, a few blocks from a major and popular Main St. type shopping and dining area. Lots of foot traffic, and not just people from the area out walking dogs.) When I went for my flu shot this weekend, there were people without masks, and several with them only covering their mouth, not their nose. That as in about 10 minutes I was inside the store. And we are a fairly educated, fairly liberal community so I'd wager we are on the more mask-compliant side of the equation than less. As for recklessness, I supposed it's like porn--I know it when I see it. If the people at that wedding weren't wearing masks--all of them, all the time (unless actively eating, and then at socially distanced tables with only one family/home per table, then yes, I'd call that reckless, for sure. I wouldn't go out of my way to say it, and certainly wouldn't hurl those words at someone if they or their loved one were sick, but yes, I'd consider it reckless. There's a lot of gray area, but for me, that's well outside gray. If they were masked, if it was a small event (about 20 ppl or fewer), if there was social distancing of the ceremony chairs and any dining seating? That's it's probably not a choice I'd have made, but I don't think I'd *quite* call it reckless. You explained your position, It made sense, I moved on. Would you like me to kiss the ring or something? Is there further discussion you’d like to have on it?
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 20:13:36 GMT -5
you could acknowledge that her position made sense before moving on, considering you attacked her for it 🤷♀️
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 12, 2020 20:24:04 GMT -5
you could acknowledge that her position made sense before moving on, considering you attacked her for it 🤷♀️ I hardly see that as an attack. Lots of people deny science nowadays, I think it was a fair question. If villanelle feels attacked she can ignore me. 🤷♀️ I care not. Or she can bring it up again. Whatever.
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 12, 2020 20:27:09 GMT -5
no one is being forced to being locked in their houses for months on end. People are being asked to avoid large gatherings, wear masks, wash hands and stay 6 feet apart. For the safety of everyone. It's not a big ask. 🤷♀️ It’s a huge ask. It’s been fine for me, but I work, I am growing a business, I am too busy to party, my culture does not thrive on gatherings, I can attend church virtually, I am already married, etc. The thing is, yes, there are people being jerks, but most people who get Covid are just being people, yet they are sometimes treated as if they have done something terrible. The assumption should be that people are just people.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 20:37:37 GMT -5
I disagree that it's huge to ask people to avoid large gatherings/parties and wear a mask in the midst of a pandemic.
We sure in heck would get through it faster.
The US isn't even pretending there is a plan to mitigate the spread. We are going with herd immunity, I guess.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 20:41:27 GMT -5
Also, I'm sympathetic to the people just being people and not so much to the people being jerks. In my opinion- it is easy to distinguish between the two.
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 12, 2020 21:46:58 GMT -5
For the record, I do in fact judge people who are blatantly being idiots. It’s just that I am seeing a lot of perfectly reasonable humans getting sick and I choose to not assume that they deserve it. And there is so, so much in between and messy.
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Post by RobinAnn on Oct 12, 2020 22:07:58 GMT -5
Also, I find it unbelievably fascinating that Colorado apparently has a near 100% mask compliance rate, apparently. Congratulations. I see people without masks all the time here. Not in my little corner of Colorado, they are not. I'm a health screener at our local hospital and I screen over 300 people a day (100 workers and 200 visitors). I get about 20 people a day trying to enter the hospital (just my door, one of five) without a mask. A hospital, for cripes sake. And easily 5 times as many with their masks hanging down below their noses. People who flat out lie to me when asked "do you have THESE symptoms?" and then are ushered back out into my lobby from their clinic because of symptoms the practitioners don't want in their waiting rooms? We are lucky our rate is as low as it is since we only have one hospital. Meant to add, the majority of the folks who don't wear (or improperly wear) masks sure know how to wear red MAGA hats or gun rights t-shirts.
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