emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Nov 15, 2020 6:20:35 GMT -5
There is an initiative to get vaccines distributed fairly, not based on who pays most. Covax: This Pfizer vaccine is not currently part of Covax, but other promising vaccines are. As I said in my other post, if it is based on who pays most, it’s just going to drag the whole pandemic out longer for all of us. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/12/covid-19-vaccine-pfizer
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Nov 15, 2020 10:17:46 GMT -5
There is an initiative to get vaccines distributed fairly, not based on who pays most. Covax: This Pfizer vaccine is not currently part of Covax, but other promising vaccines are. As I said in my other post, if it is based on who pays most, it’s just going to drag the whole pandemic out longer for all of us. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/12/covid-19-vaccine-pfizerI see no reason to believe that a vaccine will end the pandemic. We have no idea how long it’s effectiveness will last. Or if it will need to be repeated to keep immunity, or if it will work when the virus changes (like flu). Humans have (historcally) never developed a vaccine to any coronavirus that worked well. This coronavirus isn’t “special” in any regard... I really hope that the whole world doesn’t Believe that this will go away. As humans we have only irradicated 1 virus: smallpox. And that took something like 70 years. There are still places in this world where polio is a big problem and measles and mumps are actually making a return. I hope this virus continues to mutate and weaken like H1N1 and just becomes part of our endemic flu season like that virus did, but a vaccine isn’t a cure. That isn’t a thing 🤷♀️
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Post by alicechalmers on Nov 15, 2020 10:52:37 GMT -5
Historically, pandemics don’t last forever. They sweep through and run their course. What a vaccine does is minimize deaths in the process.
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emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Nov 15, 2020 10:59:01 GMT -5
I am not talking about eradicating the virus off the face of the earth, but getting the pandemic under control so people stop dying in such huge numbers and we aren’t having lockdowns for all eternity. And this coronavirus isn’t special, but the amount of money/resources being thrown at a vaccine for it is, which is why they have high confidence that they will find one (SARS disappeared before they developed a vaccine and MERS is so rare that funding a vaccine wasn’t a priority, though one of the MERS options was used as the basis for a COVID vaccine). That is per Richard Hatchett, the head of CEPI, and I will take his word for it. They also have new RNA vaccine technology, which they never had before. The experts don’t seem to think a vaccine is impossible, so I am going with fhat.
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Post by marianparoo on Nov 15, 2020 16:01:41 GMT -5
I'd go for it. But I live in a place where I could trust the people making the decision.
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mare
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Post by mare on Nov 15, 2020 20:54:50 GMT -5
There is an initiative to get vaccines distributed fairly, not based on who pays most. Covax: This Pfizer vaccine is not currently part of Covax, but other promising vaccines are. As I said in my other post, if it is based on who pays most, it’s just going to drag the whole pandemic out longer for all of us. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/12/covid-19-vaccine-pfizerI see no reason to believe that a vaccine will end the pandemic. We have no idea how long it’s effectiveness will last. Or if it will need to be repeated to keep immunity, or if it will work when the virus changes (like flu). Humans have (historcally) never developed a vaccine to any coronavirus that worked well. This coronavirus isn’t “special” in any regard... I really hope that the whole world doesn’t Believe that this will go away. As humans we have only irradicated 1 virus: smallpox. And that took something like 70 years. There are still places in this world where polio is a big problem and measles and mumps are actually making a return. I hope this virus continues to mutate and weaken like H1N1 and just becomes part of our endemic flu season like that virus did, but a vaccine isn’t a cure. That isn’t a thing 🤷♀️ Measles and mumps are making a return because people don't vaccinate. We will likely never completely eradicate it, but a vaccine that can mitigate the number of deaths is worth exploring.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Nov 16, 2020 13:09:02 GMT -5
I see no reason to believe that a vaccine will end the pandemic. We have no idea how long it’s effectiveness will last. Or if it will need to be repeated to keep immunity, or if it will work when the virus changes (like flu). Humans have (historcally) never developed a vaccine to any coronavirus that worked well. This coronavirus isn’t “special” in any regard... I really hope that the whole world doesn’t Believe that this will go away. As humans we have only irradicated 1 virus: smallpox. And that took something like 70 years. There are still places in this world where polio is a big problem and measles and mumps are actually making a return. I hope this virus continues to mutate and weaken like H1N1 and just becomes part of our endemic flu season like that virus did, but a vaccine isn’t a cure. That isn’t a thing 🤷♀️ Measles and mumps are making a return because people don't vaccinate. We will likely never completely eradicate it, but a vaccine that can mitigate the number of deaths is worth exploring. Oh it’s worth exploring... but even a “successful” vaccine isn’t going to be a cure or an eradication (at least not for many years). I just wonder if people realize that. I hear a lot of “as soon as there’s a vaccine it’ll be gone and the restrictions will go away” and I’m like, no that’s not how vacccines work, and the restrictions will last until the government decides to lift them or people decide to stop participating (which is already happening). You can’t police them all.
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Post by coachgrrl on Nov 18, 2020 10:39:43 GMT -5
I belong to a FB group comprising nurses and other health care professionals dealing with covid in the hospitals. Someone posted a question asking who would take the vaccine when it becomes available, and what if it’s mandated by your hospital to get vaccinated (which is what is currently done with the flu vaccine). I was shocked at how many are opposed to getting the vaccine...when they are working in the hospital??? Eye opening for sure. I thought it might be tough to get it as everyone would want it. Maybe not 🙁
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Nov 18, 2020 12:00:57 GMT -5
I belong to a FB group comprising nurses and other health care professionals dealing with covid in the hospitals. Someone posted a question asking who would take the vaccine when it becomes available, and what if it’s mandated by your hospital to get vaccinated (which is what is currently done with the flu vaccine). I was shocked at how many are opposed to getting the vaccine...when they are working in the hospital??? Eye opening for sure. I thought it might be tough to get it as everyone would want it. Maybe not 🙁 I see the same in dentistry. Dentists are extraordinarily “evidence based” people. It appears than in their option there is not enough evidence that this vaccine has been properly tested and its safety vetted enough due to its quicker than ever development.
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emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Nov 18, 2020 13:09:02 GMT -5
I feel like in the interviews I have seen with the scientists involved with the vaccine development, they have been clear that the reason everything is moving faster is due to increased funding and resources, but the safety protocols are the same as always (at least in the UK). Also that they are aware of the need for this vaccine to be extremely safe because so many people will need to take it, so they can’t afford to have it be unsafe (or even have the appearance of being unsafe).
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Post by justthinking on Nov 18, 2020 17:47:17 GMT -5
At our staff meeting today it was reiterated that (paraphrase mine), our district will only close the school if teachers are dropping like flies and we've run through all our subs or the government shuts us down. Also our health is their biggest priority and they are paying extra for priority testing so we only have to miss 1-2 days of school if we get tested so they don't have to pay for so many subs.
All of which is to say I'm sure the next thing will be, "Your health is our biggest priority so we are going to require staff get this vaccine so we can keep school open for the families when they return from their trips to Disney."
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Post by Mamapalooza on Nov 20, 2020 15:34:54 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what the gov't tries to do here in terms of schools. Vaccinations aren't required for public school enrollment, and the Canadian courts have backed that. Interesting that they aren’t required in BC - they are in Ontario. When we moved from AB to BC the public health nurse for the school district required the immunization records for all 3 kids. It may not be mandatory but it seemed like it was to me. Records are mandatory for the schools (as of last year, I believe it was) but the immunizations aren't. They will keep any unimmunized kids at home in the event of an outbreak such as measles, but the records requirement was implemented to consolidate them within the health units are so they could have the opportunity to encourage parents to bring the immunizations up to date. Roxy hasn't had all of hers on the schedule (HepB, HiB, and a couple of others) and they called me when the records requirements was implemented but they didn't require us to get up to date for enrolment. immunizebc.ca/vaccination-status-reporting-regulation
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Post by justthinking on Nov 20, 2020 15:36:56 GMT -5
My guess is a Venn diagram of people who refuse to wear masks and people who refuse to get this vaccine (or have their children get it) would be pretty close to just being a circle.
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Post by Mamapalooza on Nov 20, 2020 15:50:19 GMT -5
My guess is a Venn diagram of people who refuse to wear masks and people who refuse to get this vaccine (or have their children get it) would be pretty close to just being a circle. A bit general, but maybe. I was only inclined to wear a mask where it was required, which is everywhere now. I don't freak out at anyone, I just wear the mask. I'm a good sheeple to some. My husband was mask and gloves from Day 1. We ordered something like 300 gloves when this thing started, he's a freak about it. I'm content with diligent hand washing. My kid is not fully immunized according the recommendations, but she's at least masked and sometimes gloved, and she gets her annual flu shot along with us. I think it's not always as easily compartmentalized as the memes make it appear.
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Post by RobinAnn on Nov 20, 2020 21:49:03 GMT -5
Personally, I think it is the non-wearers who will be clamoring for the vaccine as they probably think it will solve all the problems.
(When I was at the hospital, there was a direct correlation between the MAGA hat wearers and non-mask compliance (at least until I refused them entrance for their gov't provided medical services.))
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Nov 20, 2020 21:49:44 GMT -5
My guess is a Venn diagram of people who refuse to wear masks and people who refuse to get this vaccine (or have their children get it) would be pretty close to just being a circle. A bit general, but maybe. I was only inclined to wear a mask where it was required, which is everywhere now. I don't freak out at anyone, I just wear the mask. I'm a good sheeple to some. My husband was mask and gloves from Day 1. We ordered something like 300 gloves when this thing started, he's a freak about it. I'm content with diligent hand washing. My kid is not fully immunized according the recommendations, but she's at least masked and sometimes gloved, and she gets her annual flu shot along with us. I think it's not always as easily compartmentalized as the memes make it appear. I wear a mask everywhere. I wear masks and respirators at work. All day every day. I would have to do a lot of thinking before I took this injection.
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emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Nov 23, 2020 11:38:50 GMT -5
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Post by villanelle on Nov 23, 2020 15:55:59 GMT -5
This poses some interesting questions. It will be easier to distribute, needing only refrigeration, but it has lower efficacy. (Although as I understand it, a small sample that was given a half dose instead of a full dose, as compared to two full doses, had a ~90% efficacy, vs 62% for 2 full doses, and they are now going to test the .5, 1 dosing model more broadly to see if they can replicate those results and if this should become the standard protocil.*****) So do they take this somewhat less effective (ignoring for the moment the possibility of that changing with different dosing protocols) into some of the more rural, secluded communities, often those hit so hard by the virus. (Thinking of some of our Native American population centers, for example.) They get the doses sooner, perhaps, because there is less of a logistics puzzle to solve to get it done, but that also means those communities get the less effective vaccination. Similarly, for many low income, high poverty, weak infrastructure countries, there is a similar question. If there's a vaccination that is somewhat less effective, but is more practicable to distribute, or perhaps even just cheaper (not referring to the AZ vaccine specifically; just another hypothetical), is that the better answer? There are so many fascinating philisophical and moral questions that arise with vaccination decisions. *****Not only would better efficacy be a great thing, but I assume it would also mean that the 3 billion doses they can create by the end of 2021 would be able to treat 2 billion people, instead of 1.5 billion people if each person needs 2 full doses.
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emmjay
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Post by emmjay on Nov 23, 2020 17:23:26 GMT -5
If I recall correctly, the goal for a vaccine overall was to end up at 60-70% efficacy, so even if the lower number is correct, hopefully the ability to distribute it would outweigh the lower percentage. Plus it is significantly cheaper, which is another plus. Hopefully the initial half dose + full dose 90% figure will end up being accurate, which would render this question moot. www.cityam.com/analysis-why-dismay-over-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-is-misplaced/ The Oxford vaccine is also part of Covax, which was created to mitigate this issue of “vaccine nationalism”. However, the US refused to join Covax because of the big, bad WHO. I do wonder about poorer American communities, with the lack of socialized medicine, If the US opts for the more effective and more expensive vaccine(s) and the ability to get vaccinated depends on ability to pay, those communities might be left behind.
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Post by villanelle on Nov 23, 2020 18:48:32 GMT -5
If I recall correctly, the goal for a vaccine overall was to end up at 60-70% efficacy, so even if the lower number is correct, hopefully the ability to distribute it would outweigh the lower percentage. Plus it is significantly cheaper, which is another plus. Hopefully the initial half dose + full dose 90% figure will end up being accurate, which would render this question moot. www.cityam.com/analysis-why-dismay-over-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-is-misplaced/ The Oxford vaccine is also part of Covax, which was created to mitigate this issue of “vaccine nationalism”. However, the US refused to join Covax because of the big, bad WHO. I do wonder about poorer American communities, with the lack of socialized medicine, If the US opts for the more effective and more expensive vaccine(s) and the ability to get vaccinated depends on ability to pay, those communities might be left behind. Even if we don't, paying for a cheap vaccine, covering missed work to get the 2 doses, etc. are going to be an issue. Even if it's a cheap vaccination, someone has to pay for it. Invididuals? Insurance companies? The government? Some combo? We aren't very good at sorting out that sort of thing.
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