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Post by justthinking on Oct 11, 2020 20:55:58 GMT -5
So what I am hearing is people with Covid being interrogated, and not by health care providers. That’s what I find deeply concerning. Some people have developed a baseline assumption that anyone with Covid has done something “wrong.” I haven't heard any of that. I agree people shouldn't be interrogating others unless the interrogators are their healthcare providers or the contact tracers.
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 11, 2020 21:05:29 GMT -5
I have heard this from three Covid + people within the last week, and from one more person who was exposed and needed to quarantine. It’s really disturbing.
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Post by justthinking on Oct 11, 2020 21:10:31 GMT -5
I have heard this from three Covid + people within the last week, and from one more person who was exposed and needed to quarantine. It’s really disturbing. That is disturbing.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 11, 2020 22:25:13 GMT -5
Maybe I have a different perspective coz of my job but... When someone has an illness it doesn’t make a difference where they caught it to me. Most of my ill patients got that way because of plain old neglect. Guess what - it makes no difference to me. They get the exact same treatment as everyone else. I don’t judge my patients for their past decisions. That’s not my job. My job is to make them healthy. No matter who they are. No matter what they did. No matter what they do. It doesn’t matter.
Anyone wishing illness on another person can seriously just go deal with their own karma. It’s disgusting. Literally disgusting.
The patients I have that had COVID had no idea where they got it. Probably at the grocery store. They didn’t know. Most of them had spouses that quarantined but never got the disease even in the same household.
Here’s what I know: I have one patient with a chronic cough due to lung problems and early COPD who is terrified to leave her home. She said people have screamed at her and she’s been basically chased out of stores trying to buy food because she clears her throat a lot and coughs (politely into her arm while wearing a mask.)
Here’s something else I do know: I was treating emergencies in April when no one else would answer their phone and someone drove by my office and reported me to the dental board for working. I was doing my fucking job at a highly risky time during a pandemic and someone accused me of being a money grubber. I had to defend myself against the charge and it cost me about $7k in legal fees to defend myself from that anonymous complaint. And the complaint was completely dropped.. I made $70 from that emergency tooth extraction that day. But I kept that patient out of the ER. Ain’t I a money grubber?!
Here’s something I know: people In March went out and hoarded water and toilet paper while their elderly neighbors had nothing. To the point where stores had to open special “elder hours” in the morning before all the Assholes started the next round of hoarding.
This pandemic has showed me how absolutely LOW humans can be toward each other. It’s also showed me how much they can virtue signal and act high and mighty and judge their fellow humans to feel better about themselves. When they’re no fucking better than anyone else. Humans are hateful, selfish, self-serving creatures who’d rejoyce over their neighbors dead body if it meant some political candidate they don’t like got one less vote.
Fuck. Them. All.
If I had the chance to go into outer space or a desert island or something and NEVER have to deal with another human again, I’d take it.
This world is a sick place.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 11, 2020 22:35:12 GMT -5
and it's fairly easy to not catch HIV (once we understood it).. We didn’t always understand it. And for many years people JUDGED and HATED people with HIV. Go rewatch the movie Philadelphia and then compare it to today. Judging people for normal human behavior. Expecting people to be ok never seeing their family or going to church or wanting their kid to have an education. I wonder what movies they’ll make about peoples current behavior in 20 years. (Also, off topic but for the record, it’s fairly easy not to catch HIV when you live in a place of privilege. Should people in Africa where contraceptives aren’t that easy to obtain, or aren’t an option for those who want to conceive just abstain from natural human behavior? How very privileged an opinion we have. A pregnant woman not treated with the proper drugs, has a 20-45% chance that her infant will contract the virus from pregnancy. 59% of HIV-positive people in Africa are women, the majority of children diagnosed with HIV get the virus from their mothers. So very easy to avoid!! Just don’t be born!)
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 7:46:15 GMT -5
I'm not actively hoping anyone gets sick. I'm wishing people would stop endangering others with this shit. And yes- if you end up sick from attending one of these super-spreaders, my sympathy for you is close to zero and my judgement is close to a million friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/10/12/christian-preacher-sean-feucht-holds-covid-super-spreader-concert-in-nashville/"Worship leader and MAGA cultist Sean Feucht drew an estimated 9,000-10,000 people (so he says) to a concert in Nashville, Tennessee yesterday. No social distancing. Few, if any, masks." How many people will die due to this shameful behavior? In Maine, seven people died due to being exposed Covid from others attending a wedding. They didn't even attend but died anyways due to the selfish behavior of others. Don't even try to convince me these people aren't worthy of judgement 🙄 www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/15/maine-wedding-covid/
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Post by mimi on Oct 12, 2020 8:53:52 GMT -5
I have a slightly different viewpoint because I live in a different country but I agree with most of the viewpoints here.
I am a frontline worker. (Phlebotomist). If I want to support my family, I go to work. We wear masks, face shields, disposable gowns & gloves all day. I see a lot of people. If I were to catch it, I wouldn’t be able to say where/when I was exposed. I try to be careful & follow the rules because as an outpatient lab collection centre, we see a lot of immunocompromised patients. (Our hospital outpatient lab collection sites are closed). I also don’t want to take anything home to my family. However, I do cautiously see my family & I go shopping for groceries & other things we need. (I never have shopped for pleasure). My husband & I occasionally eat at a restaurant but not as often as we used to.
I don’t shame anyone who catches this virus. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I do however get frustrated at those who flaunt the guidelines in place & engage in risky behaviour.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 9:19:33 GMT -5
I am super grateful for the essential workers , which is why I get so outraged by those who continue to put their lives at risk by carrying on as if all is normal. Many have not seen their own families for months. That's where my sympathy lies.
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Post by marianparoo on Oct 12, 2020 10:32:44 GMT -5
Some people have developed a baseline assumption that anyone with Covid has done something “wrong.” Not my baseline, but some have. Knowingly, willfully, and I will call them on that.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 12, 2020 11:26:43 GMT -5
Some people have developed a baseline assumption that anyone with Covid has done something “wrong.” Not my baseline, but some have. Knowingly, willfully, and I will call them on that. How do you call them out? Do you ask people how they caught it? Interrogate them? Or just assume?
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 12, 2020 11:29:29 GMT -5
According to the CDC Most of these patients wore their masks... still got sick... the vast majority. I’m really curious at how all the judging and criticism of sick folks looks in 10-20 years. I think it’s a tough look already.
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Post by marianparoo on Oct 12, 2020 12:42:06 GMT -5
Not my baseline, but some have. Knowingly, willfully, and I will call them on that. How do you call them out? Do you ask people how they caught it? Interrogate them? Or just assume? I should have said "I would" call them out, because I haven't yet. I'm thinking of people who make big statements how about coronavirus protective techniques are against their civil rights, and of course, their religious rights.
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Post by villanelle on Oct 12, 2020 14:08:26 GMT -5
So what I am hearing is people with Covid being interrogated, and not by health care providers. That’s what I find deeply concerning. Some people have developed a baseline assumption that anyone with Covid has done something “wrong.” By whom? Friends and family? I don't think I'd ask probing questions. I haven't with the people I know who have caught it. But if they are someone I know to be acting in ways I consider irresponsible, I do feel a bit of... something. I don't voice it because it's not appropriate and because they certainly have bigger concerns in that moment anyone. But a friend's brother who refused to ever wear a mask, thought the virus was barely real and 95% democratic conspiracy? I guess I felt less sympathy for him than I did for the son of a friend, who likely caught it attending public school. That doesn't mean I wasn't concerned for both and didn't hope both recover fully. (Been a while since I chatted with the first friend about her brother, but he was on a vent at one point, I believe, eventually sent home, then readmitted and more than a month in was still having debilitating symptoms. ) I guess I feel judgmental and even a little angry towards people out and about on busy streets without masks. If they catch the virus, then I still feel those things, while also hoping they are okay. And while also, also hoping that they learned a lesson and when they recover, they wear a mask and socially distance and make skip at last most of the unnecessary social gatherings.
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Post by villanelle on Oct 12, 2020 14:14:29 GMT -5
I'm not actively hoping anyone gets sick. I'm wishing people would stop endangering others with this shit. And yes- if you end up sick from attending one of these super-spreaders, my sympathy for you is close to zero and my judgement is close to a million friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/10/12/christian-preacher-sean-feucht-holds-covid-super-spreader-concert-in-nashville/"Worship leader and MAGA cultist Sean Feucht drew an estimated 9,000-10,000 people (so he says) to a concert in Nashville, Tennessee yesterday. No social distancing. Few, if any, masks." How many people will die due to this shameful behavior?In Maine, seven people died due to being exposed Covid from others attending a wedding. They didn't even attend but died anyways due to the selfish behavior of others. Don't even try to convince me these people aren't worthy of judgement 🙄 www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/15/maine-wedding-covid/And of those, how many will be people are are generally being careful? But who work at the grocery store or provide the medical care or treat the dental conditions or ride the same elevator. Or who ride the elevator with the person who works at the grocery store with the person who went to the 9000 person event. And because those 9000 people are now out and spreading this stuff, those who choose to be responsible are forced to continue to have to make those decisions that aren't fun for us, or to become part of the problem. .
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Post by villanelle on Oct 12, 2020 14:17:36 GMT -5
According to the CDC Most of these patients wore their masks... still got sick... the vast majority. I’m really curious at how all the judging and criticism of sick folks looks in 10-20 years. I think it’s a tough look already. I put very, very little stock in this. People who are sick are asked if they wore as mask? Of course most people at that point will say yes. Some likely did conscientiously wear a mask. Some likely did sometimes, and perhaps properly, or not. Some likely just don't want the exact judgement this thread mentions. It's like people who say they are socially distancing, then post about eating at a restaurant and going to wedding and hanging out with friends and going antiquing. All in the same week. Self-reporting, especially when the stakes are high and there's an answer that feels like the correct one, isn't very reliable.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 12, 2020 14:19:48 GMT -5
According to the CDC Most of these patients wore their masks... still got sick... the vast majority. I’m really curious at how all the judging and criticism of sick folks looks in 10-20 years. I think it’s a tough look already. I put very, very little stock in this. People who are sick are asked if they wore as mask? Of course most people at that point will say yes. Some likely did conscientiously wear a mask. Some likely did sometimes, and perhaps properly, or not. Some likely just don't want the exact judgement this thread mentions. It's like people who say they are socially distancing, then post about eating at a restaurant and going to wedding and hanging out with friends and going antiquing. All in the same week. Self-reporting, especially when the stakes are high and there's an answer that feels like the correct one, isn't very reliable. It’s from the CDC. Do you question everything they say? Or just things that don’t match what you believe?
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Post by justthinking on Oct 12, 2020 16:58:04 GMT -5
I put very, very little stock in this. People who are sick are asked if they wore as mask? Of course most people at that point will say yes. Some likely did conscientiously wear a mask. Some likely did sometimes, and perhaps properly, or not. Some likely just don't want the exact judgement this thread mentions. It's like people who say they are socially distancing, then post about eating at a restaurant and going to wedding and hanging out with friends and going antiquing. All in the same week. Self-reporting, especially when the stakes are high and there's an answer that feels like the correct one, isn't very reliable. It’s from the CDC. Do you question everything they say? Or just things that don’t match what you believe? You misquoted the cdc. You said the cdc reports these patients were wearing masks. What the cdc actually reported is the patients said they were wearing masks. Those are not equivalent groups.
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Post by villanelle on Oct 12, 2020 17:32:20 GMT -5
I put very, very little stock in this. People who are sick are asked if they wore as mask? Of course most people at that point will say yes. Some likely did conscientiously wear a mask. Some likely did sometimes, and perhaps properly, or not. Some likely just don't want the exact judgement this thread mentions. It's like people who say they are socially distancing, then post about eating at a restaurant and going to wedding and hanging out with friends and going antiquing. All in the same week. Self-reporting, especially when the stakes are high and there's an answer that feels like the correct one, isn't very reliable. It’s from the CDC. Do you question everything they say? Or just things that don’t match what you believe? I pretty clearly said why I didn't trust it--because it is self-reported data. Sorry that wasn't clear to you. But calling it out as only dismissing things that don't match my narrative is both insulting and ridiculous, as I was entirely clear about why I didn't believe it and it had nothing to with what it does or does not match. Nice try though, GoF. For the confused and/or obtuse: I question self-reported data. If you [global] don't, then I've got a bridge to sell you and the self-reported value of that bridge is eleven million dollars. If you asked people, "do you brush your teeth at least twice a day for at least two minutes", I suspect most--or at least many more than actually do-- would say "yes, always", when the reality is that two nights this week they were just so tired and figured it could wait until morning and one other time they were running late so probably only spent 25 seconds with the brush in their mouth. But when the dentist is asking and they know the right answer, and especially if they have a cavity and feel a certain sense of shame about that, don't you think that maybe there is a tendency to varnish the truth just a touch? Sometimes, people even believe it. Yes, I wear my mask all the time. What about picking up your coffee yesterday. Oh, I just ran in to grab it off the to-go table. What about at the work meeting. Oh, I'd forgotten it in my car and would have been late if I'd run back. But yes, I wear it all the time, other than times like that.
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 12, 2020 18:04:17 GMT -5
I also don’t believe that the majority of people with Covid wore masks 100% of the time. In health care, we are not seeing transmission from masked encounters.
There are certainly instances of Covid spread via big events, but what I am informally observing is that small gatherings keep the ball rolling. Small wedding, dinner with friends, restaurant or bar, weekend at the parents.
But where do you draw the line at what is immoral and deserving of judgement? Do you literally never interact in person with your loved ones until this is over? I know that’s the answer for some, but I don’t think most people are capable of that, or it’s simply not realistic. That is certainly the case for me.
As to a previous question, it’s friends and acquaintances interrogating the people I have mentioned. They seem to assume that if you get Covid then you were being reckless, but that is just not the case.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 12, 2020 18:29:17 GMT -5
you can safely interact with 2 or 4 people at a time. That's what I have done. It's easy to stay distant and to wear a mask. It's the new normal during this time. I don't believe it will be forever and I'm willing to give up large gatherings and public events until I feel like we are near the end of this. I would rather live a year like this (as safe as possible) than a lifetime without the people I love.
I would be devastated if I passed this virus to someone else. And out of respect for the essential workers, I will continue to do my part.
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