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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 17, 2020 20:13:14 GMT -5
A story from Facebook about how no matter how careful you are, someone thinks you are reckless: a woman is complaining that her husband’s coworker is having his girlfriend visit. She lives in another town and is a teacher. This woman is absolutely indignant that “these idiots just have to have a weekend together.” She is angry that it’s possible that her husband’s coworker will get Covid from the teacher girlfriend, and then her husband will have to quarantine from her for two weeks.
So she thinks her husband’s coworker and his girlfriend should just... not see each other for months? A year? Yet she finds the prospect of being separate from her husband for two weeks to be intolerable. Okay then.
And that is the kind of crazy crap that inspired this thread.
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 17, 2020 20:47:11 GMT -5
Oh, it gets better. The girlfriend actually got tested before her flight and was negative. But this is not enough. She thinks that she and her husband HAVE NO CHOICE but to have one of them stay in a hotel because of this terrible, risky behavior. She is furious. It’s batshit crazy.
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Post by justthinking on Oct 17, 2020 21:01:51 GMT -5
That's pretty OTT.
On a just barely related tangent...As a teacher who is teaching in person, I am being diligent about reducing my chances of exposure so I don't risk exposing my students. Last weekend one of our fourth grade families hosted a sleepover for about a dozen of our fourth grade boys. On Monday one of my students told me about her weekend. She slept over at friend A's house Friday night, had a playdate at friend B's house Saturday, and slept over at friend C's house Saturday night. Makes me wonder why I bother monitoring my own exposure.
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Post by marianparoo on Oct 18, 2020 8:17:48 GMT -5
We are finding the limits of size of encounters the most difficult thing here. Social distancing is great, I hate crowding and I hope it stays. Masks are uncomfortable, but being hooked up to O2 would be a hell of a lot worse.
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Post by marianparoo on Oct 18, 2020 8:18:26 GMT -5
For the record, I do in fact judge people who are blatantly being idiots. It’s just that I am seeing a lot of perfectly reasonable humans getting sick and I choose to not assume that they deserve it. And there is so, so much in between and messy. I as well, and am not ashamed of it.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 18, 2020 9:42:48 GMT -5
A woman in my neighborhood Facebook group posted an angry rant about how the two children who live behind her were playing outside in a bouncy castle all day and “HOw iS iT pOSsiBlE tO DiSInFEct a BOuNcY CaSTLe?!?! She included pictures of the kids and the castle.
There’s 2 kids. In their own yard. Playing. And the bouncy castle says “happy birthday” on it. They’re obviously siblings or closely related.
If some weirdo was posting pictures of my young kids online I’d be PISSED.
That Karen got her ass handed to her - rightfully so...
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 18, 2020 9:43:10 GMT -5
Oh, it gets better. The girlfriend actually got tested before her flight and was negative. But this is not enough. She thinks that she and her husband HAVE NO CHOICE but to have one of them stay in a hotel because of this terrible, risky behavior. She is furious. It’s batshit crazy. People. Are. Fucking. Stupid.
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Post by villanelle on Oct 18, 2020 10:38:02 GMT -5
I see. So it's not okay to judge and shame people for being further on the risky scale, but it's fine to judge them for being further on the conservative end of it. Got it. Makes perfect sense.
Dr. Fauci says don't fly, so I guess he's fucking stupid, too, and doesn't understand viral spread?
GoF, you said you "wouldn't call someone stupid for smoking or eating poorly", but you literally called them that for staying in a hotel to separate from someone who, in theory, could have maybe possibly but almost certainly not been exposed.
Where's the logic in that?
To be clear, I think this woman is way OTT. But it's fascinating to me that you are fine judging people ("Fucking. Stupid.") who are more cautious than you, but went on a diatribe about how people who are more risky shouldn't be shamed.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Oct 18, 2020 10:49:57 GMT -5
I see. So it's not okay to judge and shame people for being further on the risky scale, but it's fine to judge them for being further on the conservative end of it. Got it. Makes perfect sense. Dr. Fauci says don't fly, so I guess he's fucking stupid, too, and doesn't understand viral spread? GoF, you said you "wouldn't call someone stupid for smoking or eating poorly", but you literally called them that for staying in a hotel to separate from someone who, in theory, could have maybe possibly but almost certainly not been exposed. Where's the logic in that? To be clear, I think this woman is way OTT. But it's fascinating to me that you are fine judging people ("Fucking. Stupid.") who are more cautious than you, but went on a diatribe about how people who are more risky shouldn't be shamed. You’re right, I shouldn’t have called her stupid. I should’ve called her “paranoid to the point of possible mental illness.” That would’ve been much more accurate. Or, as AC said, “batshit crazy”. This woman is way farther off the bell curve than “more cautious than me” lol I mostly find it sad that this woman sits around fretting so much about something that isn’t a thing 🤷♀️ It’s be a complete statistical and epidemiological fluke for her to catch something from this dude’s gf, and yet (according to AC) she’s having a meltdown over it. That’s sad as hell.I mostly feel sorry for whoever has to live with that person, and I wonder what other low risk activities she is violently opposed to... crossing a street perhaps? Or even getting in a car? That’s pretty risky actually... Same with the neighbor taking pics of other people’s kids. That sort of paranoia generally doesn’t hurt anyone else but the paranoid person - until it does - and I have to spend $7k on a lawyer to defend myself from doing my job.
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 18, 2020 12:53:04 GMT -5
The stats on airplane travel show that it is a low risk activity.
Regardless, it is not reasonable to expect another human to go without seeing their significant other for, what, another year? Humans are social creatures. I suspect that the more there is pushback against reasonable activities, the more we will see people “rebelling” and doing things that really are higher in risk.
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Post by villanelle on Oct 18, 2020 13:01:13 GMT -5
The stats on airplane travel show that it is a low risk activity. Regardless, it is not reasonable to expect another human to go without seeing their significant other for, what, another year? Humans are social creatures. I suspect that the more there is pushback against reasonable activities, the more we will see people “rebelling” and doing things that really are higher in risk. I fully agree with this. (And with the fact that seeing one's serious girlfriend occasionally is not something most people would or should be willing to do without.) We have to accept that there is the ideal (which I suspect almost no human being is currently living) and then there is reality. My line for what should be allowed in is different than anyone else's, and I think I allow for a lot of gray area, accepting without judgement a lot of choices I wouldn't make (on both ends of that spectrum). But there is a point at which I do start to judge (not shame, but judge). I don't judge those who are more conservative because frankly, that doesn't affect anyone else. If they want to spray down the mail and then let it sit in the garage for a week before opening, it seems extreme to me, but it's a personal matter. If they want to go around licking elevator buttons, then their choice has great potential to harm others, and that's where I judge. It's not about the different choices, it's about different choices that endanger others and that contribute in a significant way to all of us having to continue adjusting our lives and having these conversations. Being on the "Fucking. Stupid." end of the spectrum doesn't harm others (unless and until it includes shaming others or dragging others into your choices). As such, I don' give much thought to it, other than maybe to worry slightly about how that person is going to hold up long term.
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Post by justthinking on Oct 18, 2020 13:06:56 GMT -5
I have a facebook friend who was a classmate of my older brother. She has a multitude of health issues including lung and heart issues and I have no idea what else. She has multiple medical appointments almost every week from what she posts. She asked her doctor if it was safe for her to travel to California to visit her son and his family. The doctor said her pre-existing conditions made that an unsafe option. She is going anyway. Why bother asking your medical provider if you aren't going to take his/her advice anyway?
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 18, 2020 13:49:52 GMT -5
I can understand. She may be gauging her risk and deciding if it’s worth it. For people who are already in poor health, a year + without loved ones is a high price.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 18, 2020 13:59:01 GMT -5
www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2020/10/11/21511641/covid-19-us-cases-update-testing-deaths-hospitalizations"America is now averaging about 54,000 new confirmed cases every day, the highest numbers since early August, according to the New York Times. More than 37,000 Americans are currently hospitalized with Covid-19 in the US, up from about 30,000 a week ago. Roughy 700 new deaths are being reported on average every day, too — and while that is down from August, when there were often more than 1,000 deaths a day, deaths are going to start increasing if cases and hospitalizations continue to rise. It’s a pattern we have seen before. Public health experts have been warning for months that fall and winter could lead to a spike in Covid-19 cases. Why? Because the best way to slow down the coronavirus’s spread is to keep your distance from other people and, if you are going to be around others, to be outside as much as possible — and both become harder when the weather gets cold. We may now be seeing those predictions start to come true, even as much of the country still has warm weather. The US already has nearly 8 million confirmed cases and 217,000 confirmed deaths. Both numbers will continue to climb."
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 18, 2020 14:04:42 GMT -5
I think it will be a very ugly winter.
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Post by Sprockey on Oct 18, 2020 14:05:22 GMT -5
nobody likes being separated from loved ones but there are ways to spend time together safely.
But the longer people resist the safety protocols, the longer this drags on.
It's not fun and people have to make concessions. Some outright refuse and They are the ones who will pay the price.
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Post by alicechalmers on Oct 18, 2020 14:22:34 GMT -5
Well, safety is relative. The only 100% guarantee is to never interact with another human outside of your household. And this is also where leadership has failed: the messaging is either “don’t see anyone or do anything” or “just move on and have a free for all.” We have done a terrible job of communicating actual risk. For example, the data on airline travel looks pretty good. Car is better. I had to dig to find it.
We still don’t have easy access to testing. What if there were home tests or community tests so that people could test the day before a family gathering? How exactly should families go about making these decisions? How to they best mitigate risk but still carry on valued traditions? There is no guidance. People are on their own.
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Post by justthinking on Oct 18, 2020 14:24:23 GMT -5
I can understand. She may be gauging her risk and deciding if it’s worth it. For people who are already in poor health, a year + without loved ones is a high price. I guess. My perspective is probably skewed by the tone of her post, which was more of, "They can say what ever they want. I'm going anyway." **footstomp** And, to be fair, by the fact my sister-in-law is the sole primary care/urgent care provider in the two this friend currently lives in while my brother is a doctor at the hospital in the slightly larger city she mentioned this doctor was at, so the likelihood one or both of my family members will end up treating her if she does become infected is pretty high.
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Post by mimi on Oct 18, 2020 14:28:43 GMT -5
I probably fall into at least the slightly higher risk category. I’m 59 (husband is 63). I have cancer (follicular lymphoma, not currently undergoing treatment-in the watchful waiting stage) & usually require antibiotics & prednisone if I get a lower respiratory infection. I also work as a phlebotomist in a laboratory collection centre. However, we don’t collect any specimens that create aerosols or droplets & I wear my PPE all the time at work. (I don’t remove it even if we don’t have any patients in the building). We disinfect after each patient. I wear my mask when I got into stores etc. My grandkids (who live with me) wear their masks to school every day & wash their hands as soon as they come home. We do occasionally see family but it’s usually spaced out & we stay under the gathering limit size. I’m cautious but not “living my life in fear”.
I don’t ask anyone who has tested positive how they got it. I just assume they were unlucky as most people do take some precautions. I mentally shake my head or roll my eyes when I see people engage in risky behaviours but I don’t wish this on anyone.
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Post by justthinking on Oct 18, 2020 14:31:31 GMT -5
Well, safety is relative. The only 100% guarantee is to never interact with another human outside of your household. And this is also where leadership has failed: the messaging is either “don’t see anyone or do anything” or “just move on and have a free for all.” We have done a terrible job of communicating actual risk. For example, the data on airline travel looks pretty good. Car is better. I had to dig to find it. We still don’t have easy access to testing. What if there were home tests or community tests so that people could test the day before a family gathering? How exactly should families go about making these decisions? How to they best mitigate risk but still carry on valued traditions? There is no guidance. People are on their own. Consistent guidance would be nice. For example, in 5-6 weeks two of my kids will be coming home from college for Thanksgiving. DS' college is having their last week of classes plus final exam week online so students don't go all over the country for a long weekend and then reconverge on campus bringing all their relatives' covid germs with them. DD's school is having the kids return to campus. We are trying to figure out what is safest for our family when kids from two different far away places return to our relatively small home. We can't really have them quarantine and that seems excessive. On the other hand, I will be continuing to teach in person (as far as I currently know), while our younger son will be attending school in person and dh works in a hospital. There are a lot of people who would potentially end up exposed if one of my college kids came home with covid. My kingdom for leadership with wise answers to the question of how to safely reintegrate college kids into our household!
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