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Post by Tpatt100 on Aug 18, 2020 15:39:33 GMT -5
This will be Trump’s twitter four weeks before the election :
1. It’s rigged, it’s fake
If he wins:
2. I knew that I would win
3. Then Trump verbally masturbating himself on twitter for the next four years.
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Post by katy on Aug 18, 2020 16:13:43 GMT -5
The more conservative people I speak with, the more I’m convinced he will be reelected. If you have any interest in understanding the other side of the aisle, I suggest you listen to the New York Times podcast "the argument". There’s a couple of intelligent people who are making their case for why Trump should be reelected. These aren’t idiots. These aren’t raving lunatics. These are people who are comparing their two choices and believe their personal interests are better suited with a trump ticket. It scared the fuck out of me. I watched a video on Black Trump supporters and I have to say, I actually understood some of their points. There's more to his appeal than racism.
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mare
Full Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by mare on Aug 19, 2020 6:55:27 GMT -5
I think he will be reelected too. I think there are a lot of closet supporters. Not just the vocal idiots we see on social media. It scares me.
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Post by alicechalmers on Aug 19, 2020 8:09:57 GMT -5
Same. I wasn’t shocked last time, won’t be shocked this time.
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Post by justthinking on Aug 19, 2020 11:21:08 GMT -5
Same. I wasn’t shocked last time, won’t be shocked this time. I am always shocked by ignorance, racism, and misogyny. I have this ridiculous hope people are learning and are growing in their capacity to love others, and am always shocked when I discover that isn't true. I can't imagine anyone who has cared for elderly parents being okay with ending social security and medicare. Then again, I couldn't imagine anyone who cares about other people voting for someone who openly mocked disabled people and bragged about committing sexual assault, and here we are.
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Post by Tpatt100 on Aug 19, 2020 13:07:28 GMT -5
I know several people personally that are Trump supporters who have admitted they only started paying attention to politics recently. The general public goes off emotions and their own biases when they vote. They’ve already formed an opinion based on party and will move goalposts when needed if their politician of choice does stupid shit. It’s almost as if the election is fighting for 10 percent of the overall voters because the other 90 percent made up their mind based on party alone.
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Post by justthinking on Aug 19, 2020 13:13:45 GMT -5
I know several people personally that are Trump supporters who have admitted they only started paying attention to politics recently. The general public goes off emotions and their own biases when they vote. They’ve already formed an opinion based on party and will move goalposts when needed if their politician of choice does stupid shit. It’s almost as if the election is fighting for 10 percent of the overall voters because the other 90 percent made up their mind based on party alone. I'll never vote for a republican again in my life, so this is probably true.
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Post by coachgrrl on Aug 19, 2020 15:09:07 GMT -5
Many people I know vote prolife which means Trump. EOD
☹️
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Post by alicechalmers on Aug 19, 2020 18:18:09 GMT -5
Most people are not critical thinkers. They have poor reading comprehension and really have no idea what they’re voting for.
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Post by Eli on Aug 19, 2020 19:07:33 GMT -5
The more conservative people I speak with, the more I’m convinced he will be reelected. If you have any interest in understanding the other side of the aisle, I suggest you listen to the New York Times podcast "the argument". There’s a couple of intelligent people who are making their case for why Trump should be reelected. These aren’t idiots. These aren’t raving lunatics. These are people who are comparing their two choices and believe their personal interests are better suited with a trump ticket. It scared the fuck out of me. This. All of it. I remember back in 2016 driving home from work the day before election day thinking the next day, we'd have the first female president. I was shocked. This year I am voting Biden, but I am not counting any chickens before they've hatched.
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Post by maurinsky on Aug 19, 2020 22:55:07 GMT -5
What is their case, Jen? I'm curious but I don't have the emotional capacity to listen to them.
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Post by jen on Aug 20, 2020 12:42:02 GMT -5
Essentially they think their republican agenda gets more traction with Trump. They fear Biden as a figurehead gives power to the left fringe
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Post by Andee on Aug 20, 2020 15:39:15 GMT -5
I have been practically yelled at by people that only vote based on pro-life. It's scary.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Aug 20, 2020 17:15:46 GMT -5
I think it’s a lose lose. If Biden wins all the crazy Trump thumpers And white supremacists will be be up in arms saying it’s rigged and fake And I imagine they’ll stretch out the results and make them have a recount and it’ll be a disaster. If Trump wins I imagine we will see much more Antifa style rioting and looting in cities. There’s no good end to it 🤷♀️
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Post by niccikatie on Aug 20, 2020 21:22:37 GMT -5
Same. I wasn’t shocked last time, won’t be shocked this time. I am always shocked by ignorance, racism, and misogyny. I have this ridiculous hope people are learning and are growing in their capacity to love others, and am always shocked when I discover that isn't true. I can't imagine anyone who has cared for elderly parents being okay with ending social security and medicare. Then again, I couldn't imagine anyone who cares about other people voting for someone who openly mocked disabled people and bragged about committing sexual assault, and here we are. The problem is that they just fundamentally don't see it the same way you do. It's like trying to use Bible quotes to argue with an atheist. You're just arguing from completely different worldviews - that's really hard to overcome. Many people I know vote prolife which means Trump. EOD ☹️ Single issue voting is a problem no matter the issue, IMO. On the topic of pro-life/pro-choice, I don't talk a lot about this online because my position gets assumed/mistaken, but I will for the sake of this point. I consider myself pro-life (and I qualify that with "consider myself" because there are many people who consider themselves pro-life that would strongly disagree with me). I believe strongly in the sanctity of life from conception to natural death. However, I believe that life has equal value along that entire continuum and that you have to look at a politicians entire policy picture rather than just their opinion on abortion to evaluate if they are truly pro-life or not. It's very important to me that pregnant women and their fetuses get proper medical care and social supports should they need them. I strongly support parental leave policies that allow adequate time for bonding and healing from birth. It's very important to me that we value our senior citizens contributions to our society and treat them well in their later years. I oppose the death penalty. It's very important to me that there are social supports for people that fall on hard times. It's very important to me that we work to eliminate the need for abortion so it can be as rare as possible. I don't think that medical procedures should be legislated aggressively. I work for less than market pay so that I can support FQHCs in their mission to provide culturally competent and high quality healthcare to the most vulnerable in our society. So, I can't vote for Trump. He's not pro-life in my view. I don't think Biden fits my definition, either, though so I end up stuck. I won't vote for Trump for many, many, many reasons but I don't yet know who I WILL vote for.
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Post by niccikatie on Aug 20, 2020 21:23:30 GMT -5
I think it’s a lose lose. If Biden wins all the crazy Trump thumpers And white supremacists will be be up in arms saying it’s rigged and fake And I imagine they’ll stretch out the results and make them have a recount and it’ll be a disaster. If Trump wins I imagine we will see much more Antifa style rioting and looting in cities. There’s no good end to it 🤷♀️ I agree with this, too. I have a few ardent Trump supporters in my circle. I know they will FLIP if he loses. It will be a disaster.
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Post by GiftOfFlavor on Aug 20, 2020 21:53:39 GMT -5
I am always shocked by ignorance, racism, and misogyny. I have this ridiculous hope people are learning and are growing in their capacity to love others, and am always shocked when I discover that isn't true. I can't imagine anyone who has cared for elderly parents being okay with ending social security and medicare. Then again, I couldn't imagine anyone who cares about other people voting for someone who openly mocked disabled people and bragged about committing sexual assault, and here we are. The problem is that they just fundamentally don't see it the same way you do. It's like trying to use Bible quotes to argue with an atheist. You're just arguing from completely different worldviews - that's really hard to overcome. Many people I know vote prolife which means Trump. EOD ☹️ Single issue voting is a problem no matter the issue, IMO. On the topic of pro-life/pro-choice, I don't talk a lot about this online because my position gets assumed/mistaken, but I will for the sake of this point. I consider myself pro-life (and I qualify that with "consider myself" because there are many people who consider themselves pro-life that would strongly disagree with me). I believe strongly in the sanctity of life from conception to natural death. However, I believe that life has equal value along that entire continuum and that you have to look at a politicians entire policy picture rather than just their opinion on abortion to evaluate if they are truly pro-life or not. It's very important to me that pregnant women and their fetuses get proper medical care and social supports should they need them. I strongly support parental leave policies that allow adequate time for bonding and healing from birth. It's very important to me that we value our senior citizens contributions to our society and treat them well in their later years. I oppose the death penalty. It's very important to me that there are social supports for people that fall on hard times. It's very important to me that we work to eliminate the need for abortion so it can be as rare as possible. I don't think that medical procedures should be legislated aggressively. I work for less than market pay so that I can support FQHCs in their mission to provide culturally competent and high quality healthcare to the most vulnerable in our society. So, I can't vote for Trump. He's not pro-life in my view. I don't think Biden fits my definition, either, though so I end up stuck. I won't vote for Trump for many, many, many reasons but I don't yet know who I WILL vote for. I’ve said it before and I still truly don’t believe we will have any meaningful change in this country without a viable third party.
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Post by maurinsky on Aug 21, 2020 12:22:58 GMT -5
A third party has to be built from the ground up - you can't just run someone for President every 4 years. There are a lot of other structural issues that would help with this, but the big barrier is the design of our government system is not parliamentary, it's first past the post takes all. That's a whole other load of work that would have to be done to enable coalition that would make it feasible for a 3rd party to not act as a spoiler, which they will always do in first past the post. I am very much in favor of ranked choice voting, but those changes will have to be made at the state level, which is where elections are handled. That is a lot of citizen work that would have to be put in. There are people all over the place working on it. In the interim, I see the current disaster as a crisis that requires the best emergent response, which in this case is definitely Biden/Harris.
I wanted to talk about the pro-life thing, too, because I don't sleep more than 4 hours in every 24 hour period right now, I was thinking about this around 2am. Most people I know who are pro-life are Catholic and they tend to be anti-death penalty and strong on valuing every life (except the life of a pregnant woman and her agency to make the best decisions for herself and her family). The religious anti-abortion movement is all about CONTROL. They have one aim - stopping women from having abortions. If we could approach this more holistically and see what works in other countries, we could reduce abortion, but evangelicals are only interested in having their way, not working toward a world where women don't feel that they need to abort. Looking at it this way, there is no other choice but Biden in 2020. There is no legitimate case that the president who does not give a single shit about 175,000 people dying from a virus is pro-life.
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Post by niccikatie on Aug 21, 2020 13:54:32 GMT -5
A third party has to be built from the ground up - you can't just run someone for President every 4 years. There are a lot of other structural issues that would help with this, but the big barrier is the design of our government system is not parliamentary, it's first past the post takes all. That's a whole other load of work that would have to be done to enable coalition that would make it feasible for a 3rd party to not act as a spoiler, which they will always do in first past the post. I am very much in favor of ranked choice voting, but those changes will have to be made at the state level, which is where elections are handled. That is a lot of citizen work that would have to be put in. There are people all over the place working on it. In the interim, I see the current disaster as a crisis that requires the best emergent response, which in this case is definitely Biden/Harris. I wanted to talk about the pro-life thing, too, because I don't sleep more than 4 hours in every 24 hour period right now, I was thinking about this around 2am. Most people I know who are pro-life are Catholic and they tend to be anti-death penalty and strong on valuing every life (except the life of a pregnant woman and her agency to make the best decisions for herself and her family). The religious anti-abortion movement is all about CONTROL. They have one aim - stopping women from having abortions. If we could approach this more holistically and see what works in other countries, we could reduce abortion, but evangelicals are only interested in having their way, not working toward a world where women don't feel that they need to abort. Looking at it this way, there is no other choice but Biden in 2020. There is no legitimate case that the president who does not give a single shit about 175,000 people dying from a virus is pro-life. I think a third party could flourish if we had ranked choice voting. We had that for the first time in our city elections this year and it went very well. I don't disagree that a 3rd party vote might as well be a vote for Trump this year. I'm fairly centrist so this is an issue I constantly have - all candidates feel too radical for me. Well, I am Catholic, so that fits, lol. I disagree it's all about control for the truly religious. Again, it's two different worldviews trying to find middle ground. You're not going to convince someone who views abortion as murder that it should be legal. Where I feel they miss the point on abortion is that there is SO MUCH we have to do before abortion doesn't feel like the right/only choice for many women. I'm not comfortable having any conversation about whether or not abortion should be legal until we have every social support in place and that there is at least movement on systemic racism inherent in our medical and social systems. And, it's not like abortion didn't exist when it was illegal - it was just either horrifically dangerous or only available to the rich. So, I totally agree with you when talk about missing the forest for the trees when trying to create a society where abortion wouldn't be needed. This all-or-nothing approach doesn't serve anyone well and I can see why it looks like it's all about control. And, I do think there is a subset where it IS about control. This is why I have such difficulty with the label of "pro-life" because so many things are assumed about what I believe or how I think a "pro-life" world should look.
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emmjay
Full Member
Posts: 1,734
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Post by emmjay on Aug 21, 2020 14:09:38 GMT -5
I can’t wrap my mind around Biden being too radical. In the UK, he would be a Tory.
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